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Old 08-11-2019, 11:45 AM
 
Location: San Francisco
2,432 posts, read 569,399 times
Reputation: 1318

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World View Post
The incidents leading to players walking off the pitch was not in the UK.

As for the University of Manchester they published a study on racism in the workplace, which was based on a questionaire however there is no mention of a racism in football study.
Racism in England is pervasive (that was my point to those who claim it is a thirty year old problem) - and to think it doesn’t crossover into football is absolutely ridiculous. (Btw, players who are forced to deal with racism are ‘on the job’ when they are on the pitch). People do not change their embedded racist views when they leave work.

All that being said, there have been many reported incidents of racial abuse toward players at PL matches (offhand I recall Sterling) which made headlines (and are a direct part of the discussion to change the rules to potentially have the ability to walk off the pitch in direct response to racial heckling and abuse. This has been the debate (and is what I was referencing) as evidenced by the English FA, Uefa, FIFA, FURD, Show Racism the Red Card, the PFA, and so on.
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Old 08-11-2019, 02:40 PM
 
Location: Great Britain
12,158 posts, read 4,148,499 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorporateCowboy View Post
Racism in England is pervasive (that was my point to those who claim it is a thirty year old problem) - and to think it doesn’t crossover into football is absolutely ridiculous. (Btw, players who are forced to deal with racism are ‘on the job’ when they are on the pitch). People do not change their embedded racist views when they leave work.

All that being said, there have been many reported incidents of racial abuse toward players at PL matches (offhand I recall Sterling) which made headlines (and are a direct part of the discussion to change the rules to potentially have the ability to walk off the pitch in direct response to racial heckling and abuse. This has been the debate (and is what I was referencing) as evidenced by the English FA, Uefa, FIFA, FURD, Show Racism the Red Card, the PFA, and so on.
Racism in England is not pervasive, it's not like the US and other parts of the world which have a real race problem.

In terms of Sterling, his main problems in terms of racisim were in relation to playing for England, and the Montenegro game, when the locals were racist and UEFA should have taken action.

Other than one isolated incident I have never heard any racism directed at Sterling, and in terms of walking off, players can walk off if they want as far as I am concerned as long as they are replaced by a substitute, they can also compain to the referee and the police who are present in large numbers at all matches.

As for Sterling, he's not in favour of players walking off, despite the disgusting abuse directed at him and Danny Rose by Montonegro fans. Indeed the main problems with racism are when England play teams abroad and in terms of other countries fans rather than the domestic game.

Raheem Sterling urges players to call out racism but not walk off pitch - The Guardian

There was an incident at Chelsea, however it was investigated by the police however there was enough evidence to prove the case in Court, however this didn't stop the club from banning the fan in question for life and giving banning order to five other fans.

There is a zero tolerance approach by most British clubs and you will receive a life time ban, and the police also have the power to ban you from entering any football ground in the country for life and adding your face to a database.

There is no country on earth that has harsher laws and takes racism more seriously than the UK, although as many clubs have pointed out the issue is minuscule and is something like 0.0004 per cent of fans.

Manchester United fans top list of arrests involving racism as a factor - The Guardian

Last edited by Brave New World; 08-11-2019 at 02:50 PM..
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Old 08-12-2019, 12:22 AM
 
Location: San Francisco
2,432 posts, read 569,399 times
Reputation: 1318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World View Post
Other than one isolated incident I have never heard any racism directed at Sterling, and in terms of walking off, players can walk off if they want as far as I am concerned as long as they are replaced by a substitute, they can also compain to the referee and the police who are present in large numbers at all matches.

As for Sterling, he's not in favour of players walking off, despite the disgusting abuse directed at him and Danny Rose by Montonegro fans.

Sterling was also the target by Chelsea fans at an EPL match (which was just as disgusting). That said, of course not everyone agrees on what changes should be made, if any - that’s the point of the ongoing debate amongst fans everywhere and various officials/organizations. While Sterling is one who is not in favor of walking off the pitch, he is in favor of point deductions and league expulsion if officials ignore (or fail to curb) abusive behavior, as has been the case on many reported incidents (and is why the debate is ongoing). Btw, keep in mind the size of the stadiums (and the fact racial abuse is not the biggest priority by police or more often, the stewards).

Per your bolded words, replacing a player (and wasting a sub replacement for him) only serves to hurt the player (and team) who was racially abused (and is an absolutely ridiculous solution). It actually rewards the team whose fans were racially abusive.
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Old 08-12-2019, 02:12 AM
 
Location: SE UK
8,043 posts, read 6,749,746 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorporateCowboy View Post
Sterling was also the target by Chelsea fans at an EPL match (which was just as disgusting). That said, of course not everyone agrees on what changes should be made, if any - that’s the point of the ongoing debate amongst fans everywhere and various officials/organizations. While Sterling is one who is not in favor of walking off the pitch, he is in favor of point deductions and league expulsion if officials ignore (or fail to curb) abusive behavior, as has been the case on many reported incidents (and is why the debate is ongoing). Btw, keep in mind the size of the stadiums (and the fact racial abuse is not the biggest priority by police or more often, the stewards).

Per your bolded words, replacing a player (and wasting a sub replacement for him) only serves to hurt the player (and team) who was racially abused (and is an absolutely ridiculous solution). It actually rewards the team whose fans were racially abusive.
Sterling was not racially abused, it even went to court! Nevertheless Chelsea banned the guy for life DESPITE there being absolutely no proof that anything racist was said - THATS ONE PERSON yet in E.Euorpe THOUSANDS of people openly chant racist things with no comeback whatsoever, there is a HUGE difference between different European countries. I don't understand why you refuse to believe people who actually experience English football first hand?


https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/89503...-face-charges/
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Old 08-12-2019, 02:31 PM
 
Location: In the Sunshine State
296 posts, read 82,977 times
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Nothing new and nothing that will ever change either..It's just like White Crap Supremacists in the USA.

They WILL NEVER go Away !!! 400 more years will come and the Jerks will be hanging around even then.
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Old 08-12-2019, 02:42 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
2,432 posts, read 569,399 times
Reputation: 1318
Quote:
Originally Posted by easthome View Post
I don't understand why you refuse to believe people who actually experience English football first
There are many of us who have attended live football matches globally (and watch on TV as well). You do realize football is the biggest sport in the world, yes? There are also many of us who follow the media coverage on the topic of racism worldwide relative to the sport (including England) because it’s impossible not to unless one is doing so selectively with a blind’s eye.
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Old 08-13-2019, 04:29 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
12,158 posts, read 4,148,499 times
Reputation: 7510
Quote:
Originally Posted by easthome View Post
Sterling was not racially abused, it even went to court! Nevertheless Chelsea banned the guy for life DESPITE there being absolutely no proof that anything racist was said - THATS ONE PERSON yet in E.Euorpe THOUSANDS of people openly chant racist things with no comeback whatsoever, there is a HUGE difference between different European countries. I don't understand why you refuse to believe people who actually experience English football first hand?


https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/89503...-face-charges/
Exactly.

I did actually mention the fact in the last post but Corportate Cowboy is selective in terms of what he quotes and seems to rely on rather strange non existent studies.

The truth being that football is now very regulated and policed very well in the UK as compared to the 70's and 80's, and the facilities are nowe state of the art. The ticket price is exoensive and in terms of trouble there is very little in the Premier League, the Championship and the other professional and amatuer leagues.

The clubs and authorities in the UK have aero tolerance approach to racism, and the UK has far more stringent laws in relation to public order and racial and religious abuse when compared to most other countries including the US which has far fewer laws.

The fact that people who have actually attended games and live in the UK are stating this is just being ignored by some American with sme sterotyped opinion and no real insight in to the reality of the situation or first hand experience in terms of the UK.
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Old 08-13-2019, 01:01 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
2,432 posts, read 569,399 times
Reputation: 1318
Any football fan who follows the sport somewhat regularly is aware of the media coverage (and commentaries/articles) pertaining to racism in soccer worldwide (which includes England) - this is especially true of late as potential (rule) changes pertaining to (continued) racial abuse toward players is one of the hot topics in the sport (despite extensive educational campaigns in the last decade and a ‘no tolerance’ stance by all leagues). One need just google it, if interested.
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Old 08-13-2019, 03:15 PM
 
Location: In the Sunshine State
296 posts, read 82,977 times
Reputation: 184
There is that same crap in The NFL..So let's not be pointing just to SOCCER !!!! Even in this Day and Age the Idiot Fans in NFL Games get out of hand and pull the chain too !!!
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Old 08-14-2019, 03:10 AM
 
Location: SE UK
8,043 posts, read 6,749,746 times
Reputation: 5479
Quote:
Originally Posted by CorporateCowboy View Post
Any football fan who follows the sport somewhat regularly is aware of the media coverage (and commentaries/articles) pertaining to racism in soccer worldwide (which includes England) - this is especially true of late as potential (rule) changes pertaining to (continued) racial abuse toward players is one of the hot topics in the sport (despite extensive educational campaigns in the last decade and a ‘no tolerance’ stance by all leagues). One need just google it, if interested.
I don't think you realise just how football mad the English are! The English are obsessed with it (and the Scots for that matter), most English men (and increasingly women) know the game 'inside out'.
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