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Old 06-06-2019, 09:42 AM
 
Location: San Francisco
2,269 posts, read 509,005 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by easthome View Post
Like I said though, black players do NOT get the abuse in England that they get in South/East Europe. In England if ONE person in the crowd is even thought to have raised an eyebrow in a racist manner they are thrown out of the stadium and banned for LIFE. In Croatia though (just for one example) you can make racist gestures, noises, throw things and not get any comeback at all. The Croatians have been punished (punitively) by EUFA, they have had to play England behind 'closed doors' but the morons that caused it WILL be in attendance the next time Croatia play England and there WILL be a barrage of 'monkey' noises aimed at Raheem Sterling / Danny Welbeck etc and it WILL be hundreds of supporters doing it. Like I said night and day!!
The match ‘behind closed doors’ was Croatia’s punishment because of a swastiska on the pitch (it occurred against Italy); and yes, racism is pervasive in European soccer. Croatia had to play their next two home matches in UEFA competition without fans (one was against England).

That said, there is plenty of documentation (articles, university studies/reports, videos, media coverage) to prove racism is still very much a part of soccer in England as well. This is not, as you suggested previously, a ‘30 year old problem’ by any stretch.
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Old 06-08-2019, 11:06 PM
 
410 posts, read 183,483 times
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"It's not us, it's them". Saying that racism is worse in Southern or Eastern Europe is in itself a racism statement. "English people are too advanced to be racist". I'm sorry, but I'm not buying that junk. Just watch "This is England". Many people forgot about it, but the hooligan problem was huge in the England throughout the 80's. Hooliganism and racism have always walked hand-in -hand. There was a time when Liverpool was nicknamed "N***rpool" for playing too many colored players from some people's taste. The Heysel catastrophe was an English work. English clubs were banned from European cups due to their supporters' poor behavior. English authorities tackled the problem the protestant way Sure, they did a good job at barring hardcore hooligans from sitting their behinds inside English stadiums. However, having left the undesirables outside the stadiums doesn't mean that the Hooligan movement has died. It is still alive and well, it's just not on the news anymore. Hooligans always show their ugly face whenever games take place abroad, time and time again. The most recent episode happened in Portugal where the English NT is playing.
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Old 06-12-2019, 03:57 AM
 
Location: SE UK
7,810 posts, read 6,637,504 times
Reputation: 5320
Quote:
Originally Posted by iron_stick View Post
"It's not us, it's them". Saying that racism is worse in Southern or Eastern Europe is in itself a racism statement. "English people are too advanced to be racist". I'm sorry, but I'm not buying that junk. Just watch "This is England". Many people forgot about it, but the hooligan problem was huge in the England throughout the 80's. Hooliganism and racism have always walked hand-in -hand. There was a time when Liverpool was nicknamed "N***rpool" for playing too many colored players from some people's taste. The Heysel catastrophe was an English work. English clubs were banned from European cups due to their supporters' poor behavior. English authorities tackled the problem the protestant way Sure, they did a good job at barring hardcore hooligans from sitting their behinds inside English stadiums. However, having left the undesirables outside the stadiums doesn't mean that the Hooligan movement has died. It is still alive and well, it's just not on the news anymore. Hooligans always show their ugly face whenever games take place abroad, time and time again. The most recent episode happened in Portugal where the English NT is playing.
Nobody is suggesting that English people are 'too advanced to be racist' and nobody denies that there was a hooligan problem in English football in the 1980's (and this was not to do with racism), I suggest you read the hoolifan books for some insight. The fact is you can go to English football and NOT find the fans caged in, not find the stadium full of police with dogs or police with tear gas which is NOT the case in 'other' parts of Europe, hooliganism WAS a problem in England but not anymore yet hooliganism STILL IS a problem in 'other' parts of Europe. All I am saying is that racism at football matches is inherently worse in Eastern and Southern Europe, I know this for a fact because as both an Englishman AND a Chelsea supporter I have witnessed it first hand - I AM the horses mouth.
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Old 06-12-2019, 08:05 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
11,629 posts, read 3,981,658 times
Reputation: 7206
Quote:
Originally Posted by iron_stick View Post
"It's not us, it's them". Saying that racism is worse in Southern or Eastern Europe is in itself a racism statement. "English people are too advanced to be racist". I'm sorry, but I'm not buying that junk. Just watch "This is England". Many people forgot about it, but the hooligan problem was huge in the England throughout the 80's. Hooliganism and racism have always walked hand-in -hand. There was a time when Liverpool was nicknamed "N***rpool" for playing too many colored players from some people's taste. The Heysel catastrophe was an English work. English clubs were banned from European cups due to their supporters' poor behavior. English authorities tackled the problem the protestant way Sure, they did a good job at barring hardcore hooligans from sitting their behinds inside English stadiums. However, having left the undesirables outside the stadiums doesn't mean that the Hooligan movement has died. It is still alive and well, it's just not on the news anymore. Hooligans always show their ugly face whenever games take place abroad, time and time again. The most recent episode happened in Portugal where the English NT is playing.
'This is England' is just a film set back over 35 years ago in 1983 and does not represent modern England.

Equally there were a lot of very cheap and nasty low-budget foorball hooligan and gangster movies made over the years, and most are just total nonsense.

I can only suggest that Americans actually go to a game in England rather than basing any knowedge on left wing film makers and low-budget films.

As for football violence and racism in Europe, there is more of a problem in parts of Eastern Europe and Southern Europe, and that is not a racist statememnt it is a factual statement.

The reality is that other countries now come to Britain, in order to see how football violence and disorder has been effectively dealt with, along with racism. The cracdown on footnall hooliganism in Britain having started in the late 80's and early 90's, with more and more legislation giving the police and courts more and more powers.

It turns out football hooligans don't like getting their front doors smashed in by the police in the early hours of the morning, then being hauled before the courts and given long prison sentences. They also didn't like life time bans from all football grounds or having their passports taken off them or having to sign on at police station at kick off times or specialist units such as the National Football Policing Unit or national databases with their pictures on them or CCTV or professional police spotters and football intelligence officers, all backed up by public order units.

They also didn't like all seater grounds and the new much more coporate nature of modern football.

How Britain Beat Hooliganism - WSJ

Football hooliganism, once the English disease, is more cold sore now - The Guardian

Policing football - College of Policing APP

Last edited by Brave New World; 06-12-2019 at 08:44 AM..
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Old 06-12-2019, 10:38 AM
 
Location: Tejas
7,551 posts, read 16,389,655 times
Reputation: 5087
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brave New World View Post
'This is England' is just a film set back over 35 years ago in 1983 and does not represent modern England.

Equally there were a lot of very cheap and nasty low-budget foorball hooligan and gangster movies made over the years, and most are just total nonsense.

I can only suggest that Americans actually go to a game in England rather than basing any knowedge on left wing film makers and low-budget films.

As for football violence and racism in Europe, there is more of a problem in parts of Eastern Europe and Southern Europe, and that is not a racist statememnt it is a factual statement.

The reality is that other countries now come to Britain, in order to see how football violence and disorder has been effectively dealt with, along with racism. The cracdown on footnall hooliganism in Britain having started in the late 80's and early 90's, with more and more legislation giving the police and courts more and more powers.

It turns out football hooligans don't like getting their front doors smashed in by the police in the early hours of the morning, then being hauled before the courts and given long prison sentences. They also didn't like life time bans from all football grounds or having their passports taken off them or having to sign on at police station at kick off times or specialist units such as the National Football Policing Unit or national databases with their pictures on them or CCTV or professional police spotters and football intelligence officers, all backed up by public order units.

They also didn't like all seater grounds and the new much more coporate nature of modern football.

How Britain Beat Hooliganism - WSJ

Football hooliganism, once the English disease, is more cold sore now - The Guardian

Policing football - College of Policing APP
I also love how the OP (presumably American) who lives in a country where you get shot by your cops for nothing because theyre black makes a post about "overt and blatant racism in European soccer" like hes gonna stick it to you now.
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Old 06-12-2019, 12:15 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
2,269 posts, read 509,005 times
Reputation: 1143
Quote:
Originally Posted by easthome View Post
Nobody is suggesting that English people are 'too advanced to be racist' and nobody denies that there was a hooligan problem in English football in the 1980's (and this was not to do with racism), I suggest you read the hoolifan books for some insight. The fact is you can go to English football and NOT find the fans caged in, not find the stadium full of police with dogs or police with tear gas which is NOT the case in 'other' parts of Europe, hooliganism WAS a problem in England but not anymore yet hooliganism STILL IS a problem in 'other' parts of Europe. All I am saying is that racism at football matches is inherently worse in Eastern and Southern Europe, I know this for a fact because as both an Englishman AND a Chelsea supporter I have witnessed it first hand - I AM the horses mouth.
You should contact the University of Manchester in regard to their study/report issued in 2019. Apparently they have it all wrong. That it’s worse in parts of Europe does not mean it no longer exists in England.
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Old 06-13-2019, 05:52 AM
 
Location: Great Britain
11,629 posts, read 3,981,658 times
Reputation: 7206
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianH View Post
I also love how the OP (presumably American) who lives in a country where you get shot by your cops for nothing because theyre black makes a post about "overt and blatant racism in European soccer" like hes gonna stick it to you now.


Exactly.

The US itself has a real racism problem.

In terms of sport, the UK has done more than most countries to stamp out racism and hooliganism, although it seems some Americans have this English hooligan 1970's sterotype which they cling to. It may have something to do with rather stupid low budget films which don't have any real bearing on reality.

Indeed in reality levels of football violence and even Nazi flags are displayed in psarts of Eastern Europe, whilst Italy and it's Ultras are well known for their fascist sympathies.
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Old 06-13-2019, 01:50 PM
 
Location: SE UK
7,810 posts, read 6,637,504 times
Reputation: 5320
Quote:
Originally Posted by CorporateCowboy View Post
You should contact the University of Manchester in regard to their study/report issued in 2019. Apparently they have it all wrong. That it’s worse in parts of Europe does not mean it no longer exists in England.
I don't think anybody is claiming it 'doesn't exist' but the difference between England and 'other' parts of Europe - namely Eastern and Southern is MASSIVE.
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Old 06-13-2019, 02:09 PM
 
Location: Tejas
7,551 posts, read 16,389,655 times
Reputation: 5087
Quote:
Originally Posted by easthome View Post
I don't think anybody is claiming it 'doesn't exist' but the difference between England and 'other' parts of Europe - namely Eastern and Southern is MASSIVE.
I just had a converstaion with a guy today who kept talking to me like Europe was a country ...
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Old 06-13-2019, 02:14 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
2,269 posts, read 509,005 times
Reputation: 1143
Quote:
Originally Posted by easthome View Post
I don't think anybody is claiming it 'doesn't exist' but the difference between England and 'other' parts of Europe - namely Eastern and Southern is MASSIVE.
Actually, you did by attributing it to a few ‘alleged’ incidents in post #43 as well as repeating it’s a ‘claim’ which is thirty years out of date.

Last edited by CorporateCowboy; 06-13-2019 at 02:37 PM.. Reason: Corrected the post #
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