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Old 10-06-2009, 04:07 PM
 
9,029 posts, read 16,438,315 times
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saying that football requires no skill and just size and that US sports require just size and no skill is very silly

if you type that honestly then you can't function at a high enough level to get into a true debate

so you just have to assume it's trolling
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Old 10-06-2009, 06:23 PM
 
Location: Fishers, IN
6,495 posts, read 10,805,434 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roneb View Post
I didn't see anything in his post that screamed troll; just an honest attempt to try to raise valid points. Take him to task for the points he raises or lay off.
The whole "soccer vs. American football" battle has been hashed and re-hashed, most notably in this now closed thread: Why is a boring, unwatchable sport like soccer the most watched TV sport in the world.

I don't care to get into anymore. Each side's points, both logical and illogical, are adequately stated in that thread. Besides, such an argument strays from the point of the OP's question. And to that question, the answer is easy: No. Probably never, and certainly not in the lifetime of anyone currently on C-D. American football will probably always be more popular than soccer in the U.S. But one needn't take that as a criticism of soccer. I enjoy both, for different reasons. My weekends now are spent watching both the EPL and NFL.
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Old 10-06-2009, 10:09 PM
 
2,849 posts, read 3,939,028 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finger Laker View Post
saying that football requires no skill and just size and that US sports require just size and no skill is very silly

if you type that honestly then you can't function at a high enough level to get into a true debate

so you just have to assume it's trolling
Hahahaha....I said that it was mostly about size, but that there were some skill positions. (Not the same as just size and no skill: see the difference?) I am sorry that you got your feelings hurt regarding your beloved gridiron, but I am the one putting out some valid discussion points.

How about answering my questions?

Name one NBA player who is 5'6".....
Name one NFL player who is less than, say, 170 pounds.....

There are many that size (and smaller) playing futbol professionally. So yeah, gridiron is mostly about size. I note that the college game has some smaller players (e.g., Jacqizz Rogers, Oregon State U.), but I doubt that very many of those will get NFL offers. Not when NFL teams can get BIGGER players for each position.

Let's take Lionel Messi for example. Have you ever heard of him before? Have you ever seen a photo of him? Seen him play?

Considered one of the best players in the world right now, Messi looks very undistinguished. Short, small stature; could mistake him for the bag-boy at the grocery store. What makes him one of the best in the world if not for SKILL?

So, to conclude:
gridiron = mostly size, a little bit of skill (pass, catch, one kicker)
futbol = mostly skill, less about size
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Old 10-06-2009, 11:04 PM
 
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so you are saying that soccer players are tiny and unathletic - just skilled?

what separates them from golfers, bowlers, billiards players and those that can throw a mean dart?

after all, they all require great skill and you can play at 5'6" and 160

and to answer you question about the NBA look at guys like spudd webb, mugsy bogues and earl boykins

also if it was only size that was needed in the NBA guys like manute bol, gheorghe muresan and wang zhuzhu would of had much better careers

your whole arguement is weak and well off point
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Old 10-07-2009, 01:34 AM
 
2,849 posts, read 3,939,028 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finger Laker View Post
so you are saying that soccer players are tiny and unathletic - just skilled?

what separates them from golfers, bowlers, billiards players and those that can throw a mean dart?

after all, they all require great skill and you can play at 5'6" and 160

and to answer you question about the NBA look at guys like spudd webb, mugsy bogues and earl boykins

also if it was only size that was needed in the NBA guys like manute bol, gheorghe muresan and wang zhuzhu would of had much better careers

your whole arguement is weak and well off point
arguement? I take it that I am discussing with someone who doesn't care about spelling and grammar.

I am not saying that futbol players are unathletic. Skill = athleticism. Skill NOT= size (weight, height). Lionel Messi is very athletic in that he has great eye-foot coordination, and probably "sees" movements well in advance of the defenders. This can be called anticipation, but others call it seeing the play develop well before anyone else. It is the skill that they say set Wayne Gretzky apart from all other ice hockey players. Did you ever see Gretzky play? He is slight of stature.

Outstanding dart players have SKILL since size has nothing to do with playing the game of darts. A big fat slob (former NFLer?) could be good at darts if he has great eye-hand coordination and whatever other skill is required by darts (a true aim).

Yes, Spud Webb certainly was one exception to my rule regarding the NBA. A player like that comes along very rarely. And, yes, not every tall person is good at basketball; that's why I said that it is MOSTLY size, and some skill. Lacking skill, the size won't help much, but it does help.

My high school had players that were 7'0'', 6'11", and 6'6". I had greater skill than the two taller ones, but my skill did not make up for my lack of height (only 6'0"). We started a 5'10" guard who had much greater skill than myself. So, go figure.

Size matters MORE to basketball and gridiron that does skill. Skill matters MORE to futbol than size. You will find hundreds of futbol players in pro leagues running around in the 5'6"-6'0" range, and none in that height range in today's NBA. Hundreds of futbolers in the 140-170 pound range, and none of that weight in the NFL.

Thanks for discussing.
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Old 10-07-2009, 01:07 PM
 
9,029 posts, read 16,438,315 times
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no it doesn't - because at the elite level you need both

if you were 6' and could ball, you would play - especially at HS - the current rivals list of top HS prospects has 46 guys in their top 150 that measure 6'3" and under

also the fact that you'd go immediately to a typing/grammar issue on an informal message board that has absolutely nothing to do with any points being made just further cements you as being a troll

you come off real bitter - you weren't good enough to make the basketball team, so they all lacked skill?

sports evolve - people are getting bigger, faster and stronger - the fact is in the US kids who fit that profile and are elite athletes gravitate towards baskeball and football - these are very popular sports, with great exposure and very lucrative rewards to those who are elite

just like the most skilled players in other countries will gravitate towards soccer - the other sports don't offer enough

in soccer defensemen are definitely trending towards size, same with the NHL - goalies as well in both sports

both are also looking for large bodies that can cause havoc in front of the net

both also feature guys of smaller stature who can explode

but you get this in the NFL with guys like maurice jones drew and darren sproles or santana moss

you get it in the NBA with guys like chris paul - a 6' player who can't stop accumulating awards for his play

i don't understand the insecurity where you need to bash other games just to make your prefered game stand out
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Old 10-07-2009, 03:50 PM
 
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Football mimics american society, soccer european society.take a guess.
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Old 10-07-2009, 06:21 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingfoot View Post
Football mimics american society, soccer european society.take a guess.
Good point. I read an interesting book that talked about how futbol mirrors the various societies: i.e., Brazilian flair, German efficiency, Dutch brilliance (and tendency towards self-destruction), and etc. How Soccer Explains the World: An Unlikely Theory of Globalization, by Franklin Foer. Good read. Another book explores Dutch society and how it is reflected in their futbol style: Brilliant Orange: The Neurotic Genius of Dutch Football, by David Winner.

FWIW, Europeans play most sports that Americans do, with the notable exceptions of gridiron and baseball. I would argue that gridiron is the odd-ball out, being played really only in the USA and Canada. I know that the NFL started a league, NFL-Europe, but it never makes the news radar screen outside maybe the NFL offices. Baseball is quite popular outside the USA, of course, with players coming to MLB from Japan, Central America and the Caribbean. Likewise, basketball has become quite popular in China and Europe, with some good players making the leap to the NBA.

There are several sports that are somewhat aggressive: rugby, Aussie Rules Football, and ice hockey, but gridiron takes the award for the sport requiring SIZE as its primary attribute. And the fact that it has the greatest amount of body protection means that the hitting is harder. But, I wouldn't tell an Australian rugby player that his game wasn't tough!

Futbol, as played in Europe, is not homogeneous; there is a big difference between the speed and physicality of the English Premier League, Spain's Primera Liga, Italian Serie A, and so forth. Players tend to simulate (take a dive) more often in Spain and Italy, and the fans accept it. In England, the fans are quite vociferous about divers and let it be known they don't like it. Referees tend to book divers in England more often than other leagues. You can't say that there is one generic European style.

Last edited by Teak; 10-07-2009 at 07:17 PM..
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Old 10-07-2009, 07:21 PM
 
2,849 posts, read 3,939,028 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finger Laker View Post
also the fact that you'd go immediately to a typing/grammar issue on an informal message board that has absolutely nothing to do with any points being made just further cements you as being a troll

you come off real bitter - you weren't good enough to make the basketball team, so they all lacked skill?

i don't understand the insecurity where you need to bash other games just to make your prefered game stand out
I guess it is not possible for you to discuss without making personal accusations, eh?

grmasterb, You are correct. This is why threads get locked: the seeming inability of some posters to make cognizant points without resorting to name-calling and childish accusations.
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Old 10-07-2009, 08:20 PM
 
9,029 posts, read 16,438,315 times
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6'2 - didier drogba
6' - steven gerrard
6'5 - Zlatan Ibrahimović
6'1 - Kaka
5'6 - Andres Iniesta
5'7 - Lionel Messi
6'1 - Cristiano Ronaldo
6' - Ronaldinho
5'7 - Frank Ribery
6'1 - Fernando Torres
6'2 - Michael Ballack
6'2 - Nemanja Vidic
6' - Arjen Robben
6'2 - John Terry
6'3 - Rio Ferdinand
6'0 - Sergio Ramos

6'5 - Peyton Manning
6' - Drew Brees
6'1 - Adrian Peterson
5'10 - Thomas Jones
6' - Ronnie Brown
6'3 - Andre Johnson
6'3 - Larry Fitzgerald
5'9 - Steve Smith
5'10 - Michael Turner
6'1 - Patrick Willis
6' - Derrick Brooks
5'10 - Rhonde Barber
5'9 - Antoine Winfield
6'2 - Nnamdi Asomugha
6'1 - Ray Lewis
5'10 - Troy Polamalu
5'11 - Ed Reed
6' - Reggie Wayne
5'9 - Wes Welker
5'10 - Santana Moss
5'6 - Darren Sproles
5'10 - LaDainian Tomlinson
5'6 - Maurice Jones-Drew

These are some of the best players in the NFL - they aren't giants by any means - well built, trained to burst for sure - however, they are all very skilled - it's not their overwhelming size that allowed them to get where they are

In the states there are a lot of guys with great physical builds and physical attributes who just don't have the skill, discipline or talent to take it to the next level and utilize it

to me I see little difference in peyton manning making a pre-snap read, setting his offense and getting reggie wayne in motion - wayne then shaking off the intial CB pressure and finding a spot between him and the safety help - manning delivers a pass while under pressure and in a split second wayne has to grab it while being concerned about a very real hit that may be coming, making that defender miss once the ball is caught in stride and then breaking towards the endzone

compared to a good set play, transition run or anything to the like in soccer, hockey or other type sports

to say that size is the only factor just isn't correct

I stand 6'5 and am taller than most NFL players I've ever encountered
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