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Old 03-29-2011, 07:48 AM
 
Location: Richmond,VA
3,835 posts, read 3,042,594 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodlands View Post
I could be wrong but I dont believe so or atleast not in the traditional sense. Like most new suburban cities.. I am sure its only a matter of time before they create a downtown in the form of a Town Center like 'downtown' NE Richland is the Village of the Sandhills
Mt Pleasant does not have a downtown. The closest thing to an urban core would be the Mt P Town Center, a popular soccer mom gathering place.
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Old 03-30-2011, 02:24 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Columbiadata View Post
Forest Acres can't even get an election going. Due to a lack of interest they're just keeping the same people in office. I just read this the other day - can't remember where - I think it was in The State. I guess they're happy with what they've got and don't think they can do any better.
Funny thing is..I have never even seen or heard of the Forest Acres Mayor or Council giving a press conference about a new development or a ground breaking for some new facility or project.. though I am certain that they must do it. I have heard more coming out of Irmo than I have from Forest Acres.. Irmo has the internationally known and widely anticipated Okra Strut I didnt know that they grew that much Okra out there where they would need to strut it.
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Old 04-02-2011, 06:28 AM
 
Location: Carrboro and Concord, NC
963 posts, read 2,400,783 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy Scott Little View Post
Reasoning here is a bit flawed. To say that all incorporated cities around Chareston would give Charleston a population close to Raleigh ignores the fact that Raleigh is contiguous with Cary (130,000) and in a county of over 900,000 people and a CSA with Durham and Chapel Hill. Same with Columbia or Greenville's comparison to Greensboro, which is contiguous to High Point and in a CSA with Winston-Salem. These urban area in NC are much larger
The census bureau has 4 primary ways of listing urban areas:

  • Largest City (city limits population ONLY)
  • Largest Urban Area (population in a contiguous area of census tracts/blocks over a certain density per square mile: basically, continual urban or suburban developed areas)
  • Largest MSA
  • Largest CSA

I arrived at my conclusion by combining the first and second of those methods (and I did not take the third and fourth of these methods into consideration at all): The population of Charleston, North Charleston, Mt. Pleasant, Isle Of Palms, Goose Creek, Summerville, Lincolnville, Sullivans Island, Hanahan, James Island, and Ladson added together. My rationale behind this was that these cities all either directly adjoin Charleston, are directly across the harbor, or directly adjoin each other, and are thus a continual, contiguous urbanized area.

This contiguous urban area would be about equal to the population of Raleigh, without Cary. I felt this logic was reasonable for a few reasons: the NC cities can annex far more freely, and because of this you have odd situations like Greenville, NC being larger (in city limits population) than Greenville, SC, even though Greenville, SC's urban area is 3 times larger; or Fayetteville, NC has a larger population (by 70,000) than Columbia, even though it's urban area AND it's MSA is much smaller. I felt that, in comparing NC cities to SC cities, that it was therefore fair (and probably most accurate) to use the city limits-only population of NC cities VS the urbanized area population of SC cities, as the former is the best indication of a city's true size in NC, whereas the latter is the best indication in SC (or GA and VA as well, where annexation laws are even more stringent than they are in SC*).

As for Wake County, NC's population of very slightly over 900,000, keep in mind that all of Wake's municipalities are somewhat centrally located within the county, so growth doesn't spill over county lines significantly, until you get to the Durham County line/Durham city limit. As North Carolina's counties on average are geographically smaller than those in South Carolina, Wake's land area (slightly under 800 square miles) is very large by NC standards.

Charleston's urban area is, by contrast, sitting atop the intersection between three counties, so the total population of those individual counties will naturally be smaller, even if the true level of urban development in the area is considerably larger than Charleston's city-limits population would indicate.

Similarly, the census bureau's population figures for Greenville's urban area (the city limits population of Greenville, plus directly adjoining unincorporated areas like Taylors, the sprawl between the G'ville city limits and Furman, along with areas to the south along US 25) in 2000 were a bit over 200,000, within a defined area of continual urban development over a certain density per square mile.

*
In Georgia, annexation laws are so severe that the only realistic work-around is city-county consolidations. This could be done in Athens/Clarke County and Columbus/Muscogee County through a simple countywide referendum in which city and county residents were allowed a vote as the city population exceeded the population in the rural parts of the counties, and smaller incorporated towns in the counties were allowed to opt out as enclaves surrounded by the consolidated city. In Augusta it was more contentious and protracted, as the unincorporated county population exceeded that within the defunct city limits, and the consolidation only passed on the third attempt. Two small rural counties in SW Georgia also formed consolidated city/town/county governments.

In Virginia, there hasn't been an annexation since 1974, with two exceptions: South Boston doubled it's land area by dissolving itself as an incorporated independent city, holding a referendum to "re-incorporate" with a new town charter, encompassing new and expanded borders, which took effect 24 hours after the dissolution of the defunct "city." I think there was a special act of the legislature, some finding of loopholes, and two local referenda to accomplish this. Nearby Danville was allowed to undertake a major expansion with another less complicated argument before the state legislature: Danville's economy has collapsed, the city population has been falling for 2 decades, and it's the poorest city of significant size in Virginia, so their argument was that it would essentially turn the expanded city into an economic development zone. The expansions that created Suffolk, Chesapeake, and Virginia Beach in the late 60s/early 70s were a process similar to the South Boston process, on a larger scale - a referendum to consolidate the county with several towns within the county, enact a new "city" charter declaring the new city to be an independent city (encompassing the entire former county) under one unified government, at which point those counties (Nansemond, Norfolk, and Princess Anne) officially went extinct.
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Old 04-12-2011, 08:47 PM
 
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Wake County (raleigh) has over 900000 peole now. So does mecklenburg (Charlotte). The growth is staggering
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Old 04-12-2011, 08:56 PM
 
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I travel both states often. There is a difference that goes beyond your stats (and I'm not sure I agree with comparing nc cities to sc urban areas. Nc cities feel much more urban. Maybe it's because these cities lean Democratic (Greensboro, Raleigh, Durham, Asheville, etc are Democratic strongholds) and that influences the vibe. As a former Philadelphian, none of these cities in either state feels really urban, but I identify raleigh and charlotte with a bit of urban feel relative to charleston or Columbia. Just my opinion.
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Old 04-13-2011, 08:42 AM
 
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I would agree that it is actually a stretch to try to show that South Carolina cities are "really" the same population as NC cities. Raleigh's suburbs also extend over multiple counties, so your true comparison for Charleston and its suburbs would also need to compare Wake County and parts of surrounding counties such as Johnston County. I concur with Timothy Scott Little--North Carolina's larger cities feel more urban and cosmopolitan. South Carolina has some really nice places to live and visit. Charleston is a gem. It is not the Research Triangle Park, though.

But I am biased--I am from Durham originally. Durham has changed a lot over the past two decades. Where Columbia has one great, interesting place to eat (Motor Supply), Durham has at least a dozen comparable places. Durham has a Mexican-style fruit popsicle establishment. Columbia has everclear daquiri bars.
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Old 04-13-2011, 08:53 AM
 
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I wonder if one factor that maybe relevant is that both Charleston and Columbia are both on waterways while Charlotte and Raleigh are not. This seems to have affected their growth patterns (in the case of the two SC cities) by providing boundaries/barriers that force in a horizontal direction away from the urban core or a semi circle in the case of charleston. while the two NC cities can grow more in a ring or circular manner??? Charleston also has alot of flood plains, marshes etc with cause its growth to leap frog over from one section to another thus making the metros less urban/dense
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Old 04-13-2011, 12:26 PM
 
Location: Charleston, South Carolina
12,757 posts, read 18,569,433 times
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Neither Charlotte nor Raleigh is particularly urban in design. They have annexed suburbia to make their populations big. To me, "urban" has to do with land use in development, not merely with the presence of development itself. Otherwise, what is suburbia?
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Old 04-13-2011, 03:09 PM
 
257 posts, read 325,376 times
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Charlotte and Raleigh are clearly larger than South Carolina's largest cities by any measure. Charleston and Columbia are much more comparable in size to Greensboro and Winston-Salem.

As far as which cities are more urban, if by "urban" you mean things like skyline, amenities, and such, then Charlotte and Raleigh definitely win. But if one is referring to "urban" in the classic sense, meaning things like the built environment and density, then Charleston is easily the most urban city between both states in my opinion. People actually go to Charleston to see and experience the city itself as opposed to just going for some specific event or an individual destination within the city like a mall.

I like the point Woodlands made. Water tends to figure prominently into the landscape of South Carolina's cities which is an advantage it has over North Carolina's cities (with the exception of Wilmington). South Carolina's largest cities also appear to do better with the presence of urban parks within their downtown areas, although Greensboro does have a nice new one.
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Old 04-13-2011, 03:29 PM
 
1,289 posts, read 2,566,978 times
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I think the point on comparison is being missed.

My understanding of the original idea of comparing is based on how restrictive annexation laws are in SC. Thus, using SC cities' URBAN AREA numbers will more accurately and comparatively reflect the population that SC cities COULD have if North Carolina's laws on the subject existed in both states.

Thus, using Greenville, Charleston, or Columbia's UA population with North Carolina's cities' actual municipal populations would give someone an understanding of how the two states' cities compare on a more even playing field. CLEARLY, No city in SC is the same size as Raleigh or Charlotte. Case in point: saying that Greenville, SC's population is smaller than that of Greenville, NC is VERY misleading. That's what the numbers say unless you look at the larger area population of each City (thus, why it's more fair to look at UA numbers, at least for SC cities).

The words "urban" and "size" have been taken out of posts and caused an uproar.
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