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Old 02-02-2012, 11:08 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seabass08 View Post
"gvillesc", to add, you must have missed Joe Riley 2 weeks ago come out publicly praising and supporting Barack Obama..........the same Obama whose NLRB is sueing Boeing and trying to force the N Char plant to close. Yeah, Riley is REALLY helping.
Riley is definitely not against the project. The employment DIRECTLY benefits his constituents and their business interests.
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Old 02-03-2012, 11:28 AM
 
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Which Metros will gain Counties???

This is how I've come to understand it (feel free to do your own research on the topic because I could very well be wrong here).

In order for a MSA to gain counties, more than 15% of the "suburban county" must commute into the "urban county". The "urban counties" are counties with "urban clusters" greater than 50,000. Being that the fastest growing urban clusters in SC are located in Greenville and York county, I'd say that those two counties would gain a suburban county first. In the case of Greenville, Spartanburg county could very well become a MSA county again rather than a CSA county (due to Greenville county's UAs spreading east into Spartanburg county). In York's case, Lancaster and Chester county could become MSA counties (due to more than 15% of the population commuting into York for jobs). The counties that York are responsible for bringing in would (by default) be Charlotte's MSA counties (because York is already in Charlotte's MSA).

This is how cities like Atlanta are able to have 30 or so MSA counties. The urban cluster of Metro Atlanta is over 4 million strong and is located in over 5 different counties (counties that have the main urban cluster or "urbanized area" are automatically MSA counties in most cases). Also, folks from far flung counties are working in that large urbanized area. Two problems with this formula are retirement communities and telecommuting; both lower the potential commuter traffic flow and can keep a county (next door) from being included in the MSA.

IMO, gaining MSA/CSA counties are rather pointless. I say this because most counties located far away from the main urbanized area (or urban cluster) are usually small and quite rural. I mean, what's the point of gaining 500 sq/miles of land and only 50,000-75,000 people? Growth within the urbanized area itself is what cities should be focusing on (and the MSA/CSA counties will follow). Greenville and York are certainly doing just that.
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Old 02-03-2012, 01:29 PM
 
Location: Columbia, South Carolina
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I have a hunch 15% of Newberry County's employed people now commute to the the urban counties of the Columbia MSA to work. Kershaw, Fairfield, Calhoun and Saluda counties crossed that line in the 2000 census.
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Old 02-03-2012, 05:22 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbancharlotte View Post
Which Metros will gain Counties???

This is how I've come to understand it (feel free to do your own research on the topic because I could very well be wrong here).

In order for a MSA to gain counties, more than 15% of the "suburban county" must commute into the "urban county". The "urban counties" are counties with "urban clusters" greater than 50,000. Being that the fastest growing urban clusters in SC are located in Greenville and York county, I'd say that those two counties would gain a suburban county first. In the case of Greenville, Spartanburg county could very well become a MSA county again rather than a CSA county (due to Greenville county's UAs spreading east into Spartanburg county). In York's case, Lancaster and Chester county could become MSA counties (due to more than 15% of the population commuting into York for jobs). The counties that York are responsible for bringing in would (by default) be Charlotte's MSA counties (because York is already in Charlotte's MSA).

This is how cities like Atlanta are able to have 30 or so MSA counties. The urban cluster of Metro Atlanta is over 4 million strong and is located in over 5 different counties (counties that have the main urban cluster or "urbanized area" are automatically MSA counties in most cases). Also, folks from far flung counties are working in that large urbanized area. Two problems with this formula are retirement communities and telecommuting; both lower the potential commuter traffic flow and can keep a county (next door) from being included in the MSA.

IMO, gaining MSA/CSA counties are rather pointless. I say this because most counties located far away from the main urbanized area (or urban cluster) are usually small and quite rural. I mean, what's the point of gaining 500 sq/miles of land and only 50,000-75,000 people? Growth within the urbanized area itself is what cities should be focusing on (and the MSA/CSA counties will follow). Greenville and York are certainly doing just that.
What do you mean by urban clusters? For the past decade or so, the coastal communities, Columbia & York County have outgrown Greenville.
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Old 02-03-2012, 11:28 PM
 
315 posts, read 329,421 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gvillesc View Post
No. Not, your personal definition. Size doesn't matter. Do some research on suburban history. There's lots of good books on the subject. PM me if you would like me to suggest some.
I did. And the concrete definition is simply a town or city on the edge of another city. Simple enough, and yeah, Mt P and NC are on the edge of Charleston. Summerville, Goose Creek are too.

But knowing the history of Mt P and N Chas, it shows that those areas didn't just sprout up hundreds of years after Charleston became established. They in fact had a huge influence on the growth Charleston enjoyed and the history that Charleston developed. Its one reason I personally think Mt P, N Char and Charleston should just merge into one city of Charleston, as all three grew and thrived together. Very different than suburbs like, for example, Goose Creek which rose from almost nothing purely on the people moving to Charleston and the "white flight" era. Or an even better example may be North Myrtle Beach, which only came into existence after the city of MB grew and spread.
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Old 02-04-2012, 04:50 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GSP101 View Post
What do you mean by urban clusters?
It is the same as an "urbanized area". However, the "urban cluster" is used to descirbe areas that are smaller than 50,000; urbanized areas are urban clusters with populations greater than 50,000. In my earlier post, I made the mistake of using "urban cluster" when I was describing UAs greater than 50,000.

50,000 or greater= urbanized area (metropolitan area)
less than 50,000= urban cluster (micropolitan area)
Quote:
Originally Posted by GSP101 View Post
For the past decade or so, the coastal communities, Columbia & York County have outgrown Greenville.
York and Greenville counties are home to SC's fastest growing urbanized areas. Myrtle Beach is SC's third fastest growing UA (though it is one of the state's fastest growing counties).

Still though, it's really hard to tell. Adding counties is all about the commute and/or the location of the urbanized area. Due to our current economy (lots of folks not commuting much anymore or choosing shorter commutes due to gas prices) it wouldn't surprise me at all to see some cities lose MSA counties (and I'm not just talking about SC here; we're talking nationwide).
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Old 02-04-2012, 08:10 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbancharlotte View Post
It is the same as an "urbanized area". However, the "urban cluster" is used to descirbe areas that are smaller than 50,000; urbanized areas are urban clusters with populations greater than 50,000. In my earlier post, I made the mistake of using "urban cluster" when I was describing UAs greater than 50,000.

50,000 or greater= urbanized area (metropolitan area)
less than 50,000= urban cluster (micropolitan area)
York and Greenville counties are home to SC's fastest growing urbanized areas. Myrtle Beach is SC's third fastest growing UA (though it is one of the state's fastest growing counties).

Still though, it's really hard to tell. Adding counties is all about the commute and/or the location of the urbanized area. Due to our current economy (lots of folks not commuting much anymore or choosing shorter commutes due to gas prices) it wouldn't surprise me at all to see some cities lose MSA counties (and I'm not just talking about SC here; we're talking nationwide).
Thanks for the info.....I was thinking more of county MSA growth rates.
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Old 02-04-2012, 09:51 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbancharlotte View Post
In the case of Greenville, Spartanburg county could very well become a MSA county again rather than a CSA county (due to Greenville county's UAs spreading east into Spartanburg county).
Actually, Spartanburg already does have its own MSA; it's also joined in with the Greenville and Anderson MSAs to form a larger CSA.

Quote:
This is how cities like Atlanta are able to have 30 or so MSA counties. The urban cluster of Metro Atlanta is over 4 million strong and is located in over 5 different counties (counties that have the main urban cluster or "urbanized area" are automatically MSA counties in most cases). Also, folks from far flung counties are working in that large urbanized area. Two problems with this formula are retirement communities and telecommuting; both lower the potential commuter traffic flow and can keep a county (next door) from being included in the MSA.
Although I know what you're essentially saying, Atlanta has 30+ counties within its metro largely because GA's counties are somewhat small in size. By comparison, similarly-sized metros like Houston and DC have less counties in their metros (10 and 15 plus the District, respectively).
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Old 02-04-2012, 10:10 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
Actually, Spartanburg already does have its own MSA; it's also joined in with the Greenville and Anderson MSAs to form a larger CSA.


I think what he was saying is that Spartanburg County could possibly be added back to Greenville's MSA, instead of standing on its own...
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Old 02-04-2012, 12:33 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gvillesc View Post
I think what he was saying is that Spartanburg County could possibly be added back to Greenville's MSA, instead of standing on its own...
Possibly, but I wanted to clarify that point.
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