racism (Charleston, York, Allendale: house, private school, taxes)

[lagoon7]

Originally Posted by accufitgolf

GC

I might dispute great private schools but that said, many private schools in the south were formed so white folks did not have to send their children to school with "dem thar niggra kids".

Actually, many private schools were formed so the elite could send their kids to get a better education than the poorly-funded county schools, or crime-plagued city schools could provide. I have a feeling, that if many people who lecture like this were given a choice they would send their kids to the nice, safe private school in lieu of the theoretical school down the street with astronomical numbers in both "diversity" and crime.


Funny how the "liberals" who are always grandstanding about tolerance will want to live in the same leafy-green gated enclaves as everyone else with money in their pocket.

[lagoon7]

Originally Posted by gps29070

In South Carolina, that is the case. Except for a few Catholic schools, South Carolina private schools were formed in the mid to late 60's to avoid white people from sending kids to mostly black schools. The racism is rampant in rural counties....

Here's just one example in Blackville, SC

Home Page

The area is nearly all black. But notice the school is nearly 100 percent white and they even set up an "annual giving fund" that only goes to white people. They only play other private schools that are 100 percent white in sports.

The private school system in South Carolina is racist.

I can find no proof that their "giving fund" is a charity only for whites. In fact, the only links I can find on their site are ones to national school fundraiser sites. Those nasty, intolerant boxtop collectors! And did you go through their entire football schedule to uncover their nefarious White-Only Private School Sports Network?

Having a private school is not racist. Do their admission policies forbid blacks from joining? No? Well, there you go. Oh! They charge money to enroll! Those horrible racists! How dare they want a quality education for their children instead of sending them off to a majority-minority public school where they will face abuse, a terrible learning environment, and sub-standard teachers. Given that the school is in the absolute middle of very poor, very rural BFE, I can only imagine the quality of the area schools.

[urbancharlotte]

Originally Posted by Amber92

Thank you all for your time. We are from Ohio and when we think of the south this is among the top 5 things we associate with it. We know there is racism everywhere.

Amber, you are making the same mistake that many have made and it's not your fault. Schools around the country teach kids about the "wicked ways of the old south". However, few (if any) of these schools actually teach the truth about our past. The first truth is that the Civil War was an economic war moreso than it was a civil rights war. Blacks were considered to be second class citizens in both the north and the south during those times. In short, racism against blacks was always a north and south issue; slavery (due to the south having the better growing season) was a southern/midwestern only issue. It is not fair to assume that the south is "more racist" due to slavery. Reason #1; slavery and the civil rights movement has come and gone. Reason #2; the south is by far the most white/black integrated region in the US.

That said, I'd have to say that you have very little to worry about. I'm regularly down in SC due to my job (urban and rural SC) and I see quite a bit of interacial dating as well as interacial groups of people just hanging out together. It isn't really something that I go out of my way to look for, but I do notice it. I guess what I am saying is that it's 2012; what else would you expect?

[greenvillebuckeye]

Originally Posted by GCreek1997

Can I ask why? WHY do you associate racism with the South? Do you do the same for NYC, Chicago, LA? Other places where racism and extreme racial grouping runs rampant?

When I think of the "South" I think of, in no order:

- Heat
- Beaches
- Southern women (best in the world!)
- NASCAR
- College football
- Fried food
- Truck stops
- swamps
- deer hunting
- fishing
- Atlanta
- Bad public schools
- Great private schools
- History
- Low cost of living
- Low taxes
- Good manners/friendly


I have lived and visited a lot of places. "Racism" isn't one of the top 20 things I associate with any single place, anywhere. To me, "racism" is just one ugly element of humanity, just like pedophilia, that a small portion of people harbor and society as a whole rejects.
-

as a history teacher i associate the south with racism due to the jim crow era personally. racism in the north may have been de facto due to a lack of laws on the books but at least it wasn't in your face. although i guess southerners will always claim "hey at least we were honest, doesn't that count?"

i associate places like the Detroit Metro area with racism due the neighborhood and housing patterns. just as i associate the Cleveland, ohio suburbs with racism due to the real estate laws that were in effect in those places during the 50s and 60s that basically told real estate agents NOT to sell to blacks. Ever been or heard of the racial tensions that have existed in places like Bensonhurst in Brooklyn? i associate racism with a lot of places, and yes the south included due to the previously mentioned reason(s).

personally as an educator i take offense to the association of "bad public schools" when you think of the south and "great private schools". most of the private schools like Orangeburg Prep for instance were simply founded as means to escape school desegregation in the late 60s / early 70s. (That to me is exhibit A when it comes to southern racism). Ever been to some of the public high schools in SC? being from Ohio and having been educated in Ohio public schools grades k - 12 i can safely say they are no better nor worse than those schools in the Buckeye state. in fact i'd take a leap here and say SC schools are for more progressive when it comes to public edu. than schools in the midwest.

[greenvillebuckeye]

Originally Posted by GCreek1997

Oh. Well, then why were private schools formed everywhere else in the nation??? To avoid "dem thar niggra kids"......or for more noble purposes? BTW, most of the private schools here are filled with the kids of Northern transplants. Guess they dont want their kids going to public schools with "dem thar" kids either, right?

Private schools like Academic Magnet, Ashley Hall, Porter Gaud, Bishop England, are as good as any private schools in the country. The private schools here were formed so parents could choose not to send their kids to ****ty public ones......probably same reason private schools exist everywhere in the US.

Academic Magnet is a charleston public school genius. most private schools in the north are catholic based which all pre-date school desegregation movement of the 50s and 60s. many urban catholic schools i.e. Cleveland Central Cathlic and Cincinnati's Purcell Marian as two examples have enrollments that are mostly racial minorities. Private schools in the south in my experience are white solutions to a diverse public school problem that had "christian" slapped on the school's slogan so that they could be made to be "legit". Ashley Hall, Porter Gaud I'll grant ya as Ashley Hall has been around for ages and is only for girls. At PG the only color that matters is $Green$.

as i mentioned in another post Orangeburg Prep was est. in 1964 amidst the school desegregation movement going on in America. Wilkinson High the then all black school and Orangeburg High, the all white school existed prior to this development. Upon Orangeburg's school's desegregation whites from Orangeburg High enrolled at OP while Orangeburg - Wlkinson, the cities only public high school became 99% black. OP also went to the extent of taking old Orangeburg High's school colors and mascot. If OP isn't an example of white flight away from darky then racism doesn't exist.


do you have any actual data to support the theory that most private school enrollment is due to northern transplants? i'll wait.

[gps29070]

Originally Posted by greenvillebuckeye

as i mentioned in another post Orangeburg Prep was est. in 1964 amidst the school desegregation movement going on in America. Wilkinson High the then all black school and Orangeburg High, the all white school existed prior to this development. Upon Orangeburg's school's desegregation whites from Orangeburg High enrolled at OP while Orangeburg - Wlkinson, the cities only public high school became 99% black. OP also went to the extent of taking old Orangeburg High's school colors and mascot. If OP isn't an example of white flight away from darky then racism doesn't exist.

yup yup, and many of the majority african-american counties have the same problem... whites won't attend the public schools.. And the private schools defacto block blacks by having an admission policy which weeds them out legally (although by law, it's illegal to discriminate)

Some areas like Batesburg-Leesville, Edgefield, and Saluda have successfully integrated their schools with a good racial mix. They still have the defacto-racist private schools there, but they are on the decline there.

[lagoon7]

Originally Posted by gps29070

yup yup, and many of the majority african-american counties have the same problem... whites won't attend the public schools.. And the private schools defacto block blacks by having an admission policy which weeds them out legally (although by law, it's illegal to discriminate)

Some areas like Batesburg-Leesville, Edgefield, and Saluda have successfully integrated their schools with a good racial mix. They still have the defacto-racist private schools there, but they are on the decline there.

I'm sorry, but can you blame them? Have you been in one of these schools? If you had the funds, wouldn't you want your child to get an quality education from a qualified teacher in a safe environment. Maybe I'm just one of those horrible racists, but when it comes to my kids I stop caring about passing other people's mundane PC litmus tests.

Again, it's easy to sit on the computer and pound away at how terrible other people are, or live in some leafy green, lily white suburb and expound on the evils of racism ..but these same people will send their kids to a "racist" private school instead of the crime-ridden, out of control public one.

I'm not sure why people who seem to be so violently "anti-racism" seem to be so obsessed with the idea of improving bad schools by forcing children of a certain color into them.

[GSP101]

Originally Posted by lagoon7

Actually, many private schools were formed so the elite could send their kids to get a better education than the poorly-funded county schools, or crime-plagued city schools could provide. I have a feeling, that if many people who lecture like this were given a choice they would send their kids to the nice, safe private school in lieu of the theoretical school down the street with astronomical numbers in both "diversity" and crime.


Funny how the "liberals" who are always grandstanding about tolerance will want to live in the same leafy-green gated enclaves as everyone else with money in their pocket.

I am not a liberal or conservative in the way political parties like to define the terms. But, this statement is 100% false. People with money, Republican or Democrat, don't always want to live in gated enclaves. Want proof, where are the highest priced houses in Charlotte? Myers Park..Eastover..SouthPark, there are no gates to be found. Eastover even backs up to a low income area. Shandon seems to be expensive and there are no gates to be found. Homes around Augusta Road are pricey with no gates. I think you get the picture. You are just towing the Republican party line.

As for schools, public schools can and do work if properly funded and managed. Myers Park, Providence, South Meck and others in Charlotte are good schools. Dorman, Riverside, JL Mann, Spartanburg, etc in the upstate are as good as you will find anywhere. There are many schools in Columbia which are top flight schools. And, all of these are attended by students who have parents that can easily afford Providence Day, Charlotte Country Day, Spartanburg Day etc......

Are there elements of racism in private schools, sure. Are there parents who want their children to get a good education, sure. Same responses would apply to public schools.

But, trying to polarize the issue with using political defninitions is a waste of time. If you want to educate kids, quit trying to cast folks who disagree as a "liberal" and as ones who don't have the means. You are dead wrong in that assessment. The real issues are funding and more importantly in SC, a desire to make public schools good.

[lagoon7]

Originally Posted by GSP101

I am not a liberal or conservative in the way political parties like to define the terms. But, this statement is 100% false. People with money, Republican or Democrat, don't always want to live in gated enclaves. Want proof, where are the highest priced houses in Charlotte? Myers Park..Eastover..SouthPark, there are no gates to be found. Eastover even backs up to a low income area. Shandon seems to be expensive and there are no gates to be found. Homes around Augusta Road are pricey with no gates. I think you get the picture. You are just towing the Republican party line.

As for schools, public schools can and do work if properly funded and managed. Myers Park, Providence, South Meck and others in Charlotte are good schools. Dorman, Riverside, JL Mann, Spartanburg, etc in the upstate are as good as you will find anywhere. There are many schools in Columbia which are top flight schools. And, all of these are attended by students who have parents that can easily afford Providence Day, Charlotte Country Day, Spartanburg Day etc......

Are there elements of racism in private schools, sure. Are there parents who want their children to get a good education, sure. Same responses would apply to public schools.

It's not the gates that matter, but I guess if you feel like dragging my generic description out, that's fine. I shouldn't have used it because if you ever go to South Florida, many a neighborhood has gates, and many of these places aren't really that nice. These places in Charlotte, gates or no, are extremely expensive. The schools there I'm sure are fantastic, because they cater to an upper-middle class demographic.

I'm not arguing that there are extreme disparities in public schools and that a lot of it is incredibly unfair to the children involved. My argument in this thread was to the poster who is going on and on about the "evils" of private schools, going so far as to post false information about a seemingly random one here in SC.

If it was up to me, the new schools being built would spend less on appearance and more on actual learning, but y'know.

[GSP101]

Originally Posted by lagoon7

It's not the gates that matter, but I guess if you feel like dragging my generic description out, that's fine. I shouldn't have used it because if you ever go to South Florida, many a neighborhood has gates, and many of these places aren't really that nice. These places in Charlotte, gates or no, are extremely expensive. The schools there I'm sure are fantastic, because they cater to an upper-middle class demographic.

I'm not arguing that there are extreme disparities in public schools and that a lot of it is incredibly unfair to the children involved. My argument in this thread was to the poster who is going on and on about the "evils" of private schools, going so far as to post false information about a seemingly random one here in SC.

If it was up to me, the new schools being built would spend less on appearance and more on actual learning, but y'know.

Dorman is by no means an upper middle class area and it is a good school. I don't think there is an easy answer to quality education. There are many problems on both ends of the conomic spectrum. I have heard moms in the Ballantyne area say that they want their kids to be involved in school activities so they can play more tennis at the country club. On the other end, there are some parents who could care less about education.

But, I don't think the approach in SC is the right approach at all levels of education. Money is not the answer to everything but, cutting funding to schools even when the state runs a surplus is not the right answer. And, I don't believe that political name calling will get the job done either. I don't understand why folks call people a "liberal" when all anyone wants is for their kids to get a good education so their lives will be better. It is not a political issue in as much as it is an economic issue for the state.

Maybe this is a good topic for another thread, what should be done in SC to improve education.