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I was a little surprised at South Carolina's ranking, not North Carolina's ranking. While it is true that SC has grown in the past decade and has some recent announcements, it is still not keeping pace over the long term with Georgia, NC, Virginia and others. Having lived in both states, SC education is a huge problem in reality and perception. SC has two major research universities that are underfunded, both schools need more resources. The fact that the state contributes less than 10% of Carolina's operating budget but controls 100% of the board is a joke. NC has all universities under one board. While Carolina is in the middle of a $1b financial campaign, more resources are still needed for capital projects. In NC, there was an effort a few years back to upgrade facilites across the university system, SC should look at this as well. Most high schools in SC are not on par with others. There are pockets of good schools in GSP, Columbia & Charleston but, not enough to show that the state is serious about education. Outside of the Charlotte suburbs, SC has three areas that are seeing good growth but nothing on the scale of a Raleigh, Charlotte, Atlanta etc....As of today, Charleston is the only SC metro that approaches the growth figures of these cities and, it is still way behind.
As a stand alone, low taxes are not the answer for recruiting new business. It has to be combined with quality of life (which is subjective), education, infrastructure etc....
I'm glad you understand. Outside of Columbia, the infrastructure is mostly dismal and could even use improvements there. When you cross the state line, especially into Ga though, the roads always get better. Education is awful however you try and look at it. Quality of life is subjective and its mostly the people who volunterily moved here who view it the highest over time. Nature may be a plus, but we have a lot of crime for our size. Finding things that interest you may be few and far between if you don't favor what most of our average joes do...there's a little diversity but not enough...and everythings soread out.
I have never lived in Raleigh but, the fact that Raleigh has a true international airport, 1 completed outer loop and another under construction, I don't see the infrastructure as being similar. Raleigh grows many multiples faster than Greenville so, the infrastructure is stressed but, Raleigh has better roads than Charlotte.
I HAVE lived near Raleigh and the roads are not better than in the Upstate. There are more roads but there is also a LOT more traffic.
I-40 was never finished through Raleigh - the southern part of their loop is a substitute. The northern part of the loop has sections that are only 2 lanes in each direction despite traffic that is high enough for twice as many lanes.
The new outer loop is only being finished because they finally financed it as a toll road. NCDOT projected a 20 year wait to build it as a non-toll road.
The population growth in the Raleigh area has far outpaced the construction of infrastructure to handle the growth. If we don't plan and spend money now in the Greenville area we will have the sames issues 10 years from now.
I HAVE lived near Raleigh and the roads are not better than in the Upstate. There are more roads but there is also a LOT more traffic.
I-40 was never finished through Raleigh - the southern part of their loop is a substitute. The northern part of the loop has sections that are only 2 lanes in each direction despite traffic that is high enough for twice as many lanes.
The new outer loop is only being finished because they finally financed it as a toll road. NCDOT projected a 20 year wait to build it as a non-toll road.
The population growth in the Raleigh area has far outpaced the construction of infrastructure to handle the growth. If we don't plan and spend money now in the Greenville area we will have the sames issues 10 years from now.
I am glad that you HAVE lived in Raleigh. I have not heard anyone from Raleigh complain about road especially since 540 has about 100 lanes in each direction. But, that is why I clarified my statement with the growth of Raleigh, the infrastructure is obviously stressed. That area grows at a rate of 3x the upstate, it will be stressed. However, you are talking about 2 loops in the Raleigh area to 0 for GSP. You have a large international airport in Raleigh with a small domestic airport at GSP. High speed commuter rail will serve Raleigh way sooner than GSP and NC already operates trains between Charlotte & Raleigh. In addition, the educational infrastructure is not comparable. So, although you HAVE lived in Raleigh, I don't see how the infrastructure in the upstate is better. Could be a good thread though to dig deeper into capacity levels, commute times, public transit etc.....
As for a 20 year wait, I think planning for 485 was started in the 70's. NC built the first section with 2 lanes in each direction carrying 150k+ cars per day, all with no lights. Meanwhile, there are many cities in NC with loops that don't need them......another thread topic, I think somewhere in the Greenville section.
Greenville is in a bad situation. Supply is tied to demand.....unfortunately there is just not enough demand (people who want to live/do business) there for most people to feel like things need to change.
Infrastructure changes mean that $$ must be spent.....but most cannot see the need for making any changes without first having the population numbers to justify it.
This does not look good...all it would take is for our economy to slow down and then they whole thing could nose dive. I believe every number was pretty accurate...the economy was the biggest redeming factor and even it was only halfway up and it still feels like we could be doing a lot better. I imagine Georgia will go down too soon if they don't pass the new sales tax
Greenville is in a bad situation. Supply is tied to demand.....unfortunately there is just not enough demand (people who want to live/do business) there for most people to feel like things need to change.
Infrastructure changes mean that $$ must be spent.....but most cannot see the need for making any changes without first having the population numbers to justify it.
It is a double edge sword!
Quote:
Originally Posted by upstateforchanger
This does not look good...all it would take is for our economy to slow down and then they whole thing could nose dive. I believe every number was pretty accurate...the economy was the biggest redeming factor and even it was only halfway up and it still feels like we could be doing a lot better. I imagine Georgia will go down too soon if they don't pass the new sales tax
All of this applies equally (or in some cases even more so) to just about any other city/metro of a similar size.
Well when I dropped by the Clemson iCar campus recently it was like going to India/china. If you look at most top 50 tech schools you'll see the same trend. So the US has already lost the manufacturing lead (lol @ Olympic uniform outrage) and soon will lose the tech innovation lead if we keep education as 12th priority. Saturday rant over!
All of this applies equally (or in some cases even more so) to just about any other city/metro of a similar size.
I'm not talking about individual cities/metros, but based by states. The upstate as compared to other areas in states and in our own is better off than some, but then again it's located in pockets and still isn't all that great. Think about Anderson, Williamston, Honea Path, Iva, Abbeville, Greenwood, etc, these all are relatively backwoods compared to the 'good' parts of the upstate, and even Greenville can be quite boring at times and doesn't have superior infrastructure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohtalim
Well when I dropped by the Clemson iCar campus recently it was like going to India/china. If you look at most top 50 tech schools you'll see the same trend. So the US has already lost the manufacturing lead (lol @ Olympic uniform outrage) and soon will lose the tech innovation lead if we keep education as 12th priority. Saturday rant over!
12th priority? Maybe 49th priority . In a state that has a lot of features that makes it the blunt of jokes, the education is a joke even amongst South Carolinians. If you're family is powerful and rich, then maybe you'll get into a private school that's alright, but public education? Ha! If they could get away with it they'd shut down all public schools and give parents vouchers for private or charter schools and say 'Go if you wish, stay out if you must'.
We're just going back through another cycle again. Textiles and factories were the old trades that kept the people dumb and low paid or constantly in dept to the companies, now manufacturing is doing the same except some are halfway decent, but we could still do better half the time.
As I said before, I'll be waiting for the day the manufacturing starts to pull out of SC and leave us broke, dumb, and paralyzed again. Doesn't matter if it takes 1 year or 100, if we don't diversify and 'wise up', it's gonna happen...no matter how much Greenville and it's citizens try and act like it's the meca of the new world and every company should be blessed to move there.
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Saturday rant over!
