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Old 03-29-2014, 11:32 PM
 
Location: Charleston, SC metro
3,518 posts, read 4,387,643 times
Reputation: 1386

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I'd rather call it the War of We Forgot Why We Did This All in the First Place.

People seemed to have forgotten why "states" even exist. States, the word itself, everywhere else is the world, is equated with country. Secretary of State for example, deals with other "states"/countries. State = nation. We originally wanted to be different nations. Different rules, laws, and cultures. The states were pressured into joining into a large union at first because that was the only way to win a war with Britain. Many resisted being a union of states and thought it would be only for the Revolutionary War and in place for anyone that attempts to attack our soil.

The constitution led to an eventual centralized body for the "union of the states" that was just meant to get us through the war and protect us against other oppressors. A few other commonly established rules were thrown into the mix for accomplishing purposes. Over time, people just misinterpretted it as one centralized state with little mini states. The civil war/WoNA brought about the change to popular thought of a common country vs individual countries. That's essentially what it was.

I am a 30-year northerner and after much research, especially before moving here, I can tell you, slavery is not the cause of the war. Northern states attempting to abuse their power in office to change the balance of economy was at play. At the start of the war, all states were equally in support of slavery. Propaganda swayed the North further into the years of the war, especially after a few years, the North was getting their a** kicked. I don't care what anyone says, the South was trying to save their livelihood of a plantation-based economy over law-changes that were meant to shift money towards immigrant-employing business owners in the North. The disagreement is fundamental today. Put forth laws to aid something common in one region that screws over another...

So when someone tells me that the Rebel flag is racist, I immediately believe they have no idea what they are talking about. The South wasn't the only place that thought African Americans were lesser citizens. The North did JUST the same at the start of the war, but was accepting of newspaper and other propaganga into thinking otherwise. Look it up. It's what happened.

But let's not forget that any of the Confederate flags looked nothing like the Rebel flag. They had the rebel flag built in at times, but the extra white space or stars and stripes built in were attributed to innocence or unity just the same as the American flag.

I'm sorry but nothing tells me supporting the Rebel flag nor the Confederacy tells me that it stands for African Americans being lesser citizens. Every state at the start of the civil war, before propaganga, thought the exact same thing. Pretending the North wasn't as racist in 1860 is ridiculous. An immigrant melting pot and propaganga helps change your cause, but it doesn't change the fact that everyone was cool with slavery in 1855. The South wasn't exposed to the same degree of propoganga, otherwise they may have changed just the same. It is just how the country was. Don't single out the South. And again, this is coming from a 30-year Northerner.

 
Old 03-30-2014, 01:09 PM
 
1,912 posts, read 2,004,597 times
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Rory, that was a very good post, and you made some excellent points.

I do agree that the true meaning or purpose of that flag and the war is very complex, and one that even the best scholars would still disagree on. Just like in 150 years, there will be HUGE misunderstanding and debate about why the US went to war in Iraq and Afghanistan. 9-11 was our "Fort Sumter" moment.

But, the flag has been hijacked by racists and Nazis, as well as other hate groups. Like it or not, we have to realize that the flag is now used by many for hate, and I just cant ignore the people who see hate when they see that flag, and I understand why they would see it that way.

Just my opinion, but I think we can honor all our ancestors in many ways, and do so in a way that doesn't offend or anger those who only see the flag that the Klan and Nazis have hijacked.
 
Old 03-30-2014, 01:32 PM
 
106 posts, read 113,442 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CD2013 View Post
Rory, that was a very good post, and you made some excellent points.

I do agree that the true meaning or purpose of that flag and the war is very complex, and one that even the best scholars would still disagree on. Just like in 150 years, there will be HUGE misunderstanding and debate about why the US went to war in Iraq and Afghanistan. 9-11 was our "Fort Sumter" moment.

But, the flag has been hijacked by racists and Nazis, as well as other hate groups. Like it or not, we have to realize that the flag is now used by many for hate, and I just cant ignore the people who see hate when they see that flag, and I understand why they would see it that way.

Just my opinion, but I think we can honor all our ancestors in many ways, and do so in a way that doesn't offend or anger those who only see the flag that the Klan and Nazis have hijacked.

if we let losers like you decide what is offensive, then everythign will be banned. Freedom of speech allows speech that can offend other people because people like you exist. You bitched for 3 months straight on here that Haley posted a picture of a gun on her Facebook page. That was offensive to you.
 
Old 03-30-2014, 06:41 PM
 
1,912 posts, read 2,004,597 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timetrav View Post
if we let losers like you decide what is offensive, then everythign will be banned. Freedom of speech allows speech that can offend other people because people like you exist. You bitched for 3 months straight on here that Haley posted a picture of a gun on her Facebook page. That was offensive to you.
I'm not saying the flag should be banned. It just shouldn't be flown on government property. It represents no standing government. No flag should fly on government property other than its own standing flags, or the flags of other standing governments to honor them.

Maurice Bessinger or whatever his name is that flew the rebel flag over his BBQ restaurants? He should be allowed to fly that flag ALL DAY EVERY DAY if he wants over his own business. Hell, if a German restaurant wants to fly a Nazi flag over their business, go for it.

But not on government property.
 
Old 03-31-2014, 06:01 AM
 
Location: Sumter, SC
1,827 posts, read 2,058,265 times
Reputation: 1290
South Carolina wasn't a state in 1775. Why would you chose the state house to fly a memorial flag when we weren't even a state.

Even been to Ocracoke Island in the NC Outer Banks? There is a British Flag flying at a cemetary/memorial for dead British soldiers there.
 
Old 03-31-2014, 06:49 AM
 
22,769 posts, read 26,132,273 times
Reputation: 14556
Quote:
Originally Posted by CD2013 View Post
But, the flag has been hijacked by racists and Nazis, as well as other hate groups. Like it or not, we have to realize that the flag is now used by many for hate, and I just cant ignore the people who see hate when they see that flag, and I understand why they would see it that way.

Just my opinion, but I think we can honor all our ancestors in many ways, and do so in a way that doesn't offend or anger those who only see the flag that the Klan and Nazis have hijacked.
it is a flag of southern nationalism.

some people think southern nationalism is synonymous with slavery. Those people are ignorant, and we shouldn't kowtow to their self-righteous opinions.


but to answer your question about the british flag: no, it wouldn't bother me. it is an important part of our state's history as well. Even the name "Carolina" is a reference to the former king of england, scotland, and ireland.
 
Old 03-31-2014, 07:06 AM
 
Location: Sumter, SC
1,827 posts, read 2,058,265 times
Reputation: 1290
Quote:
Originally Posted by CD2013 View Post
But, the flag has been hijacked by racists and Nazis, as well as other hate groups. Like it or not, we have to realize that the flag is now used by many for hate, and I just cant ignore the people who see hate when they see that flag, and I understand why they would see it that way.
Do those same groups fly other flags? (I'll answer.) Yes they do. They also fly the American Flag. Does that make the Amercian Flag a symbol of hate?
 
Old 03-31-2014, 08:02 AM
 
3,131 posts, read 3,115,036 times
Reputation: 1400
Quote:
Originally Posted by CD2013 View Post
I'm not saying the flag should be banned. It just shouldn't be flown on government property.
It flies on a monument to fallen soldiers. As the Eagles said... Get over it.

Quote:
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to rorytmeadows again
 
Old 03-31-2014, 06:42 PM
 
Location: One of the 13 original colonies.
10,136 posts, read 6,462,205 times
Reputation: 7984
Hell yes! Fly the British flag, fly the Confederate flag, both were part of our history.
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