race relations in the upstate (Columbia, Greenville: home, high school, taxes)

[TejasGuy]

I'm a newcomer to this conversation, but as a former resident of central SC and a proud African American man (and a Texan for the moment), I'm very interested in the last question from portlandfamily to anonymous. So Anonymous, what is your take on the differences between the SC black community and the Oregon black community? This could be fun!

[anonymous]

As a former resident of central SC and a proud Anglo-American man, what is my take?

My take is that for a multitude of reasons, there is a large economic and social gap between the average white South Carolinian and the average black South Carolinian.

Now I've never been to Oregon, so I'm going to have to go with what I know. I have been to California, and I've seen that this gap either (a). doesn't exist or (b). is much smaller than it is in South Carolina, depending on where in California you are. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Oregon has more in common with California than it does with South Carolina.

Where I'm from, the "black neighborhood" is over 95% black. The "white neighborhood" is about 80% white. Blacks vote overwhelmingly Democrat. Whites vote overwhelmingly Republican. If "white people" want something done (politically), the "black people" will be against it. If the "black people" want something done, the "white people" will be against it. You rarely see people from different races in the same social groups, they usually don't attend the same churches. There are statistical disparities in quality of schools, the safety of neighborhoods, drug use, life expectancy, and a whole bunch of other quality-of-life indicators.

If you want statistics on crime, education, poverty, health, etc., they are out there; research them yourself. Honestly, I'm surprised that I'm having to explain this to a black man from South Carolina; it would appear that you are race baiting, and attempting to get me to say something that you don't like, as evidenced by your sarcastic comment, "This could be fun".

[johnM]

When I first visited Columbia, I was struck by the lack of multicultural diversity, having come from DC. My first experience was visiting a food service establishment that had all white managers and an all black staff. I was uncertain what decade I was moving into. However, I learned very quickly to love Columbia and found the cultural/racial debate very interesting. I lived there for nearly four years and was at the state house when the confederate flag was removed from its dome. Quite interesting times, particularly when experiencing firsthand the black supporters for leaving the flag in place in honor of history/heritage rather than in recognition of its use (abuse?) as a racist symbol.

All in all, I loved Columbia and the people. Constrasting it to DC, the area is quite conservative, but less so than Greenville or Charleston. As I reflect on what my experience was like five years ago, I felt that the races tended to remain separate. I think mixed race families will still draw attention from the general public there.

Here's the best way I can put this in context. One of my close friends is from Africa. My wife, toddler and I went out to dinner with my friend recently. We're white; he has a dark complexion. As we walked out of the restaurant, my friend carried my blonde little girl through a crowd of people. During dinner and afterward, no one paid us the slightest attention.

It was the refreshing color-blindness and lack of attention that immediately made me think of SC. There is no way at all a black man could have carried a blonde toddler through a crowd in Columbia without receiving the attention of strangers. Nonetheless, I know from personal experience that South Carolina will be whatever you make of it. I moved there kicking and screaming. I chose to learn to love it and continuously looked for the things to discover and enjoy. You will find the upstate wonderful if you choose to.

Best wishes.

[carolinajack]

a SC native, i know what pfamily is talking about. However, i have lived in Portland Oregon as part of an Interracial couple, also married a white girl from a prominent upstate SC family and i am black and from lowcountry. we also lived in NY and let me tell you, the progressives in NY and OR are as phony about race as any place. Oregon has more hate crimes than SC has as doesn NJ and Pennsylvania and New York. Yes,SC is conservative but at least they are honest about how they feel. Portland Oregon has a large white supremacist population and so you cant say Portland is more progressive or tolerant, people just live and let live but they still are just as racist.

Give me SC over Yankeeland or the NW anyday

[crazyone]

Race relations in the South are very good and very bad at the same time. I have a white friend who lived in Charleston, SC for some time who had problems with black people trying to run her off the sidewalk when she was out walking. She also said that many black people were very rude in that area. On the other hand, there are a great many of multiracial couples in the area you are looking in, so I will speak for this area.
Yes, there are still a number of redneck ognoramuses who are very outspoken about their feelings about people of different races.
BUT, and this is a big BUT, on the whole I (speaking as a white person, though) feel that the overall race relations here are relatively good. I have biracial couples in my church - even the local fundamental university, Bob Jones, has gotten rid of the ban on interracial dating. County council has (finally) elected officials who support making Martin Luther King Day a county holiday.
I guess the first thing that pops in my mind about race relations is what Angela Davis had to say about the South, though I don't remember the exact wording. She claimed that while she held no illusions about the North, she still believes that there is hope for the South.

[crazyone]

Originally Posted by carolinajack

a SC native, i know what pfamily is talking about. However, i have lived in Portland Oregon as part of an Interracial couple, also married a white girl from a prominent upstate SC family and i am black and from lowcountry. we also lived in NY and let me tell you, the progressives in NY and OR are as phony about race as any place. Oregon has more hate crimes than SC has as doesn NJ and Pennsylvania and New York. Yes,SC is conservative but at least they are honest about how they feel. Portland Oregon has a large white supremacist population and so you cant say Portland is more progressive or tolerant, people just live and let live but they still are just as racist.

Give me SC over Yankeeland or the NW anyday

NO DOUBT, Carolinajack!!!!!!!!!!!!! I LOVE Colorado, but it is there that I saw the most insidious forms of racism. It was all so subtle and underhanded. At least here, when you deal with it, its pretty blatant, none of this smooth crap under the surface. And, I believe the people in power are less racist overall than in some of the states where there is little diversity.

[scjj]

Originally Posted by crazyone

Race relations in the South are very good and very bad at the same time. I have a white friend who lived in Charleston, SC for some time who had problems with black people trying to run her off the sidewalk when she was out walking. She also said that many black people were very rude in that area.

I have to disagree. I have lived outside of Atlanta, Baltimore and before coming to Charleston was in North Carolina. Out of all of them the Charleston area by far has been the most polite and friendliest.

[carolinajack]

i agree with scjj--i have travelled to every state in the US and lived in 9 of them. I can tell you the rudest one is Philadelphia Pa, and New York and Boston. Portland Or people stare at you blatantly and rudely.

I dont know where crazyone experienced black people pushing whites off the sidewalk in Charleston, because Charleston is named consistently #1 friendliest City in the US. Blacks might do that in the ghetto, but they dont do that over in Mt Pleasant. the blacks there are Southern, genteel, polite with manners, NOThing like the ghetto crap in the Northern cities.

I grew up in the South and moved to the North as an adult. I have been called the N word more times in 17 years up North than all my 21 years in the South.

The actual count--3 times in the South, 10 times in the North, including today in Philly

[Judy Nolin]

Excuse me but this quote----"I'm not saying that the upstate is racist, but you're not moving to a socially/politically progressive area, regardless of what you hear on this website." Offends me greatly! And, it is absolutely NOT true.
With all due respect, how can you make a comment like that? Do you live in this area?
I've lived in Greenville for most of my 59 years, I know the people here and I say you are incorrect. Having traveled extensively all my life, I'm hear to tell you that our area is the best at accepting individuals for "Whom they are" and not the color of their skin. We have friends & relatives from all walks of life, different cultures, other religions, other races, mixed families etc. and would not tolerate any other kind of behavior. We love, live, and learn together.

My comment to you PORTLANDFAMILY is to hold your head high, you have nothing to be ashamed of, so why anticipate any problems. Doesn't matter where you go, good people are everywhere. Unfortunately, the reverse is also true regardless of where you go.
I feel you would be most comfortable in our area. Good luck with your decision.

[Judy Nolin]

One more comment on this subject please.
Just last night my grand daughter was in a play at school, she is 13 but looks older<<different problem lol. A very dear friend who happens to be black and proud of it, came along. (He was also one of our best men in our wedding).
After the play was over, she came running down the isle and jumped up to give him a big hug. I never gave it a second thought until I read some of your posts, but no one noticed, no body stared, and we wouldn't have cared if they had. We teach our children tolerance and to love all that earn our respect. We are as you say Color Blind and proud of it. Too bad that everyone doesn't feel the way we do, I feel sorry for them whether black, white, or other. They are really missing out!!!!