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Old 01-31-2016, 04:32 PM
 
Location: TPA
5,564 posts, read 4,595,093 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
Well Greensboro has been a bit aggressive with annexation historically; it has a smaller urban area than both Winston and Durham but a higher municipal population. So there are other variables at work that would determine what the municipal population might be if SC had more favorable annexation laws.
You guys are taking this too in depth. I'm just talking about it terms of right now with what is. I don't care about past history and all that jazz, I'm saying if everything was how it is, but Greenville and other SC cities annexed accordingly, then this is a rough estimate of what the population would be.

Doesn't matter to me that N Charleston took potential residents from Charleston, or that Greensboro has smaller urban area. Fact of the matter is G-boro has 280K people. Slightly less than what Greenville would have if people in Taylors, Wade Hampton, Sans Souci, Parker, Judson, City View, Berea, Gantt, Five Forks, etc were included.

Feel free to create your own metrics and scenarios, but I'm talking "as is."
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Old 01-31-2016, 09:19 PM
 
2,071 posts, read 2,319,454 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jandrew5 View Post
You guys are taking this too in depth. I'm just talking about it terms of right now with what is. I don't care about past history and all that jazz, I'm saying if everything was how it is, but Greenville and other SC cities annexed accordingly, then this is a rough estimate of what the population would be.

Doesn't matter to me that N Charleston took potential residents from Charleston, or that Greensboro has smaller urban area. Fact of the matter is G-boro has 280K people. Slightly less than what Greenville would have if people in Taylors, Wade Hampton, Sans Souci, Parker, Judson, City View, Berea, Gantt, Five Forks, etc were included.

Feel free to create your own metrics and scenarios, but I'm talking "as is."
"as is" is the current situation. You can't deny a "what if" scenario about Charleston and North Charleston being one city, then say Greenville should include the population of all those towns.
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Old 02-01-2016, 09:42 AM
 
1,521 posts, read 1,665,798 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jandrew5 View Post
If going by areas that are technically "Greenville" then yes, it'd be right O/U 300. But even if its more in the 290's, it is definitely above Greensboro's 279K, still making it 3rd either way.
If Greenville's population was based off of zip codes that are technically "Greenville" (29601, 05, 07, 15, 11, 17, & 09) the population would be 198,551 based off of 2013 census estimates.

I feel like that would be a more realistic representation of the Greenville city population, these zips for the most part are contiguous development from the city center outward and are not other established towns such as TR, Mauldin, Greer, etc.

For Columbia, the city limits to me should include all of 29210, 29223, 29229, 29201, 29205, 29203, and 29209, which would make Columbia's population 256,958.

These numbers I feel like do a much better job at giving a more accurate figure on Columbia and Greenville's population figures rather than what they reflect now.

This is also why I like looking at UA instead as well because it shows a contiguous growth that moves outward from a core. This can cross county lines and city limits which, in most cases, growth does, but unlike MSA, it wont include an entire county, just those areas that are dependent on the core urban center.
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Old 02-01-2016, 01:00 PM
 
34,735 posts, read 32,148,363 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jandrew5 View Post
You guys are taking this too in depth. I'm just talking about it terms of right now with what is. I don't care about past history and all that jazz, I'm saying if everything was how it is, but Greenville and other SC cities annexed accordingly, then this is a rough estimate of what the population would be.

Doesn't matter to me that N Charleston took potential residents from Charleston, or that Greensboro has smaller urban area. Fact of the matter is G-boro has 280K people. Slightly less than what Greenville would have if people in Taylors, Wade Hampton, Sans Souci, Parker, Judson, City View, Berea, Gantt, Five Forks, etc were included.

Feel free to create your own metrics and scenarios, but I'm talking "as is."
I think you're oversimplifying it and are discounting the various factors associated with annexation, but okay.

And even if we were to look at this as an "as is" situation from your perspective, it seems that ColaClemsonFan11's scenario would appear a bit more realistic.
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Old 02-01-2016, 01:22 PM
 
Location: TPA
5,564 posts, read 4,595,093 times
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Again, its all for fun. Mutiny, I dont see the need to overcomplicate this.

Colafan I used various metrics, not just zip codes, and I did not include incorporated cities in that, and I came up with vastly different numbers. 280-300K. Columbia yes, in the 250's.

Leadmonkey...all those that I included in Greenville are not "towns." Taylors, WH, Berea, Dunean, Welcome, Gantt, Five Forks, etc are all unincoprsted communities that are technically sprawled out bits of Greenville. North Chas is not. It is its own city, so I count it as its own. I counted Mauldin, Simpsonville, Greer, as their own as well. And Forest Acres, Irmo, Cayce as their own. I'm not going to pretend N Chas doesnt already exist as its own when it does.

1. Charlottle, 2. Raleigh, 3. Greenville, 4. Greensboro, 5. Durham, 6. Columbia, 7. Winston-Salem, 8/9. Charleston/Fayetteville, 10. Cary, 11. Spartanburg is how I see it.

Last edited by Jandrew5; 02-01-2016 at 02:10 PM..
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Old 02-01-2016, 05:04 PM
 
6,895 posts, read 10,473,607 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jandrew5 View Post
Again, its all for fun. Mutiny, I dont see the need to overcomplicate this.

Colafan I used various metrics, not just zip codes, and I did not include incorporated cities in that, and I came up with vastly different numbers. 280-300K. Columbia yes, in the 250's.

Leadmonkey...all those that I included in Greenville are not "towns." Taylors, WH, Berea, Dunean, Welcome, Gantt, Five Forks, etc are all unincoprsted communities that are technically sprawled out bits of Greenville. North Chas is not. It is its own city, so I count it as its own. I counted Mauldin, Simpsonville, Greer, as their own as well. And Forest Acres, Irmo, Cayce as their own. I'm not going to pretend N Chas doesnt already exist as its own when it does.

1. Charlottle, 2. Raleigh, 3. Greenville, 4. Greensboro, 5. Durham, 6. Columbia, 7. Winston-Salem, 8/9. Charleston/Fayetteville, 10. Cary, 11. Spartanburg is how I see it.


Whoa whoa whoa.. Cary is bigger than Spartanburg???! Now Im Pissed..Cary is a suburb.. Spartanburg is a bone fide urban city with a solid urban core..... and.. so forth mine is bigger than yours etc etc........
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Old 02-02-2016, 02:07 PM
 
1,521 posts, read 1,665,798 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jandrew5 View Post
Again, its all for fun. Mutiny, I dont see the need to overcomplicate this.

Colafan I used various metrics, not just zip codes, and I did not include incorporated cities in that, and I came up with vastly different numbers. 280-300K. Columbia yes, in the 250's.

Leadmonkey...all those that I included in Greenville are not "towns." Taylors, WH, Berea, Dunean, Welcome, Gantt, Five Forks, etc are all unincoprsted communities that are technically sprawled out bits of Greenville. North Chas is not. It is its own city, so I count it as its own. I counted Mauldin, Simpsonville, Greer, as their own as well. And Forest Acres, Irmo, Cayce as their own. I'm not going to pretend N Chas doesnt already exist as its own when it does.

1. Charlottle, 2. Raleigh, 3. Greenville, 4. Greensboro, 5. Durham, 6. Columbia, 7. Winston-Salem, 8/9. Charleston/Fayetteville, 10. Cary, 11. Spartanburg is how I see it.
What metrics did you use for Greenville? To be honest I don't see much outside of the zips I used as to what would boost the population that much.
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Old 02-02-2016, 02:38 PM
 
Location: Greenville SC 'Waterfall City'
10,110 posts, read 5,512,388 times
Reputation: 3980
The best way to get past city population and annexation issues is to just look at CSA and MSA.

According to the 2013 census data, Greenville's CSA had 516,308 more people than Columbia's CSA and 726, 330 more people than Charleston's MSA.

I found that to be astonishing.
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Old 02-02-2016, 05:53 PM
 
2,071 posts, read 2,319,454 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simpsonvilllian View Post
The best way to get past city population and annexation issues is to just look at CSA and MSA.

According to the 2013 census data, Greenville's CSA had 516,308 more people than Columbia's CSA and 726, 330 more people than Charleston's MSA.

I found that to be astonishing.
I don't.

The Greenville CSA is pretty much the entire upstate, Abbeville, Anderson, Cherokee, Greenville, Greenwood, Laurens, Oconee, Pickens, Spartanburg and Union counties.

The Columbia CSA is Calhoun, Fairfield, Kershaw, Lexington, Richland, Slauda, and Newberry counties....

Then Charleston is just Dorchester, Berkeley and Charleston.

Looking at it Metro vs Metro vs Metro, Greenville has 825k, Columbia has 800k, Charleston's at around 700k.
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Old 02-02-2016, 06:12 PM
 
Location: Greenville SC 'Waterfall City'
10,110 posts, read 5,512,388 times
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if you were to poll everybody in country to rank the SC MSAs and CSAs by size based on their best guess, how do you think most would rank them?

I believe most would have Charleston, Columbia, then Greenville.

many of those Upstate counties you listed have very few people. I wonder why the Greenville CSA has so many more counties.
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