Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I'm pretty versed in my history, thanks. Yelling insults and barbs are protected free speech. You're welcome to do the same. Physical confrontation isn't. It's not ok, or excusable, by either party. I, nor anyone I know, supports the Klan or any of it's ideals. They're a side act at the freak show, but physically attacking them makes you look just as small as they are. If you want me to take you seriously, then act better than them.
The Klan used physical intimidation and violence because they had small minds and fear was the only way to prop up their ideals because it wouldn't withstand critical analysis. Using the same techniques devalues your argument. The state moved past an issue it should have addressed long long ago, but instead of holding it up as something that should be applauded and looking for additional positive steps, you're tarnishing it by being out there rolling in the streets with the Klan's swine.
Be better than they are. By doing that, you further diminish them by showing how small and insignificant they are. Nothing frustrates someone yelling insults at you than to be ignored.. to be dismissed because they don't matter.
Are you suggesting that he agrees with the Klan's views or supports them in some way because he pointed out a factual statement that the Klan wasn't the ones being violent?
He wasn't defending the Klan. He was defending a citizen's right to peacefully express their views in a public setting.
I don't support the Klan in any form, but I don't support them being beaten for expressing their views, as twisted as they might be. I abhor Westboro and how they have twisted Christianity. I've stood in human barricade lines to keep them from fallen soldier's family's sight. But, I will defend their ability to express their views. Either you're for free speech and all it's ugliness or you're not for free speech. As Southpark's Trey and Matt commented on the subject, either it's all OK, or none of it's OK.
But IMO you cross the line when you move from expressing your views to physical confrontation.
You can say all this "freedom of expression" all you want, but I'm sick of people blaming the opposers for getting violent, but not blaming the Klan for being instigators, which was their goal.
The Klan knows their image and what people think of them, but they don't like this "pro-black media" (which doesn't exist, but whatever), so what do they do? Instigate and get a rise out of people, so those people (blacks) react, while they (the Klan) look like a bunch of helpless puppies.
The Klan is nothing but evil and oppression, and like I said, walks like duck, quacks like a duck, its a duck. And the attitude never changes. The Klan of 1925 has the same attitudes in 2015, only difference is lynching is now outlawed and they don't openly burn as many crosses. Peaceful or not, it's not okay what they do or stand for, and the verbal abuse they were spewing is no better than the physical that "they had to endure." It's okay to call someone a "n-gg-r", not okay to get punched. Both hurt equally. That was the Klan's goal, and judging by your attitude, they succeeded in their rally. They knew they could get jumped, and they wanted it. All apart of the plan.
It's very sad. Not calling you or anyone that has this mindset a racist at all, but when I see people blame the "(mainly black) protesters" for getting violent, but has nothing to say about the Klan contaminating our statehouse steps with their "white revolution" mantra, it makes me glum.
I bet if open ISIS members wanted to come to the SC statehouse and peacefully perch on the steps and call for "death to America" while waving ISIS flags, you (or anyone) wouldn't be okay with it. Both are terrorist groups, both want to rally "peacefully", whats the difference?
If it's ISIS, we'd probably end up napalming the statehouse steps, and nobody probably would have a problem with it.
Youre right, Insull, the protesters shouldve kept their fists and feet to themselves, but at the same time, theres no excusing the Klan's actions, whether it was "peaceful" or not.
The Confederacy tried to peacefully secede. The Union continued to occupy Fort Sumter, located in Confederate Territory. Resupplying Fort Sumter was seen as an act of aggression, and in turn the CSA felt a need to defend itself by shelling Sumter. So....it can easily be argued that the Union started the war.
History is great, but everyone just wants the foot notes.
Wow, unbelievable that someone can think this way.
"Peacefully secede"
"Fort Sumter in Confederate territory"
"Resupplying fort was aggression"
"The Union started the war"
I just hope you are not to far along, because you have a lot to learn in life.
Or you have been greatly brain washed from birth.
Some interesting points since I was here last. First off I totally agree with IsNull that physical violence is never the answer and one side resorted to that. But again the Klan was the instigator here, that can not be overlooked.
Jandrew5 and DaveinMtAiry are correct as I see it, the Klan intentionally attempted to instigate a reaction. Same as Westboro does. Yes they want to catch you on video attacking them. They want to be able to sue you. So be smarter. Don't you think Dr. King had people attempting to goad him into attacking them? Don't play their game. Just because someone uses words to say something mean doesn't mean you resort to physical violence. We've taught our children that since they were old enough to begin playing with others.
They're just words, and they only have power over you if you grant them that power. Don't allow other people, people you give no value to, exploit the insecurities you have about yourself that you won't admit to others. Maybe you're a little over weight and someone calls you "Heafty Hippo". Don't allow your own insecurities about your appearance or weight give power to someone else that you normally would care less about.
In our country people have the right to express their opinions as vile as repulsive as you may find them to be. It could be argued that gays have been oppressed in this country longer than any minority. They changed society by changing how society viewed them. They took the stereotypes and the untruths and exposed them for what they were by being better role models to society. Gang stomping a racist that society has no respect for to begin with isn't changing stereotypes.
I don't think the media is pro black. In fact I feel the media can be very racist. They tend not to show black on white crime or black on black crime. That's because they're saying that violence is expected from the black race, that it's not news worthy. But white on black crime, that is news worthy because the white race are expected to act differently. We have to change that narrative where all lives matter, and all crime (regardless of race) matters equally.
Jandrew5 and DaveinMtAiry are correct as I see it, the Klan intentionally attempted to instigate a reaction. Same as Westboro does. Yes they want to catch you on video attacking them. They want to be able to sue you. So be smarter. Don't you think Dr. King had people attempting to goad him into attacking them? Don't play their game. Just because someone uses words to say something mean doesn't mean you resort to physical violence. We've taught our children that since they were old enough to begin playing with others.
They're just words, and they only have power over you if you grant them that power. Don't allow other people, people you give no value to, exploit the insecurities you have about yourself that you won't admit to others. Maybe you're a little over weight and someone calls you "Heafty Hippo". Don't allow your own insecurities about your appearance or weight give power to someone else that you normally would care less about.
In our country people have the right to express their opinions as vile as repulsive as you may find them to be. It could be argued that gays have been oppressed in this country longer than any minority. They changed society by changing how society viewed them. They took the stereotypes and the untruths and exposed them for what they were by being better role models to society. Gang stomping a racist that society has no respect for to begin with isn't changing stereotypes.
I don't think the media is pro black. In fact I feel the media can be very racist. They tend not to show black on white crime or black on black crime. That's because they're saying that violence is expected from the black race, that it's not news worthy. But white on black crime, that is news worthy because the white race are expected to act differently. We have to change that narrative where all lives matter, and all crime (regardless of race) matters equally.
Good post, totally agree with the possible exception of "they're just words". There are a few words that clearly cross the line and I have no doubt they were heard at this rally.
Jandrew5 and DaveinMtAiry are correct as I see it, the Klan intentionally attempted to instigate a reaction. Same as Westboro does. Yes they want to catch you on video attacking them. They want to be able to sue you. So be smarter. Don't you think Dr. King had people attempting to goad him into attacking them? Don't play their game. Just because someone uses words to say something mean doesn't mean you resort to physical violence. We've taught our children that since they were old enough to begin playing with others.
They're just words, and they only have power over you if you grant them that power. Don't allow other people, people you give no value to, exploit the insecurities you have about yourself that you won't admit to others. Maybe you're a little over weight and someone calls you "Heafty Hippo". Don't allow your own insecurities about your appearance or weight give power to someone else that you normally would care less about.
You're completely disregarding history here, and that's quite unfortunate. With the Klan, it's always been about more than just words. Presently, people with their type of mindset have become completely unglued over the removal of the Confederate flag from Statehouse grounds in SC and Alabama, removal of the emblem from license plates in other states, the decision of certain retailers to no longer sell Confederate paraphernalia, etc. (truthfully, they started becoming unglued after Obama was elected president). Caravans of vehicles flying Confederate flags are driving through Black neighborhoods and recruitment flyers are being sent out in the wake of these developments. You can take this as just "empty rhetoric" if you want to, but these people saw Roof's actions and the right decisions by states regarding display of the Confederate flag in the aftermath of the Charleston massacre, as a wake-up call. Black folks can't afford to simply regard this as "just words" in this climate.
Quote:
In our country people have the right to express their opinions as vile as repulsive as you may find them to be. It could be argued that gays have been oppressed in this country longer than any minority. They changed society by changing how society viewed them. They took the stereotypes and the untruths and exposed them for what they were by being better role models to society. Gang stomping a racist that society has no respect for to begin with isn't changing stereotypes.
And that would be the dumbest, most asinine argument anyone could ever make. Let's not EVEN go there dude...I can't believe you even have the unmitigated gall to make such a comparison.
Quote:
I don't think the media is pro black. In fact I feel the media can be very racist. They tend not to show black on white crime or black on black crime. That's because they're saying that violence is expected from the black race, that it's not news worthy. But white on black crime, that is news worthy because the white race are expected to act differently. We have to change that narrative where all lives matter, and all crime (regardless of race) matters equally.
Jesus Christ, this is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Smh...
Feel free to continue to live in the past, just like they are. Nothing in your statement concerning history makes it ok to gang stomp down a person exercising their free speech rights. Nothing in your history statement changes the fact that those people got played by the Klan. Instead of turning their back and getting good press for being better people, they reinforced a stereotype that the black community embraces violence.
I said, "It could be argued", and is often. There are different types of oppression and certainly were different experiences. One can't hide being black like one could hide being gay. But sterilization, execution, and other violent acts were common practice for those "discovered" to being homosexual. Many of these things continue to go on today in even modern countries around the world. It wasn't until this year that same sex couples could, without question, wed. However, none of that was the point. The point was the LGBT community changed society not by physically beating down their oppressors, but by living as consistent open examples of how wrong their stereotypes have been.
Who got good press? The black officer that helped the Klan member due to the heat. That's an example of rising above and being the better man.
In any of the recent riots, the demonstrators did everything they could to instigate a reaction from the police and tried to capture it on video. You saw the same thing during the Occupy demonstrations. It wasn't ok for the police to react and gang beat down people based on verbal taunts. And, no one would be blaming the protesters... all the blame would have been on the police. They have the right to say their idiotic things and you don't have the right to physically attack them for it. Period.
I will back track a touch and add focus to my media news comment. I should have said national news and national print media. Local news organizations are a different animal and tend to have a reverse racist slant. They tend to show black suspected and convicted criminals more than white. Now is that because the news is simply pandering to the audience and it's about making money? Is the news simply re-enforcing the stereotype of violence in the black community? In either case it's racist and both local and national news should do more to even out its coverage respectively.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
