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Old 09-02-2021, 03:15 PM
 
Location: TPA
6,482 posts, read 5,816,082 times
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Lordy, I mean, I'm AA, and I feel that way. Other poster who are AA said the same thing, so. I've literally been in that reality and was in the Charleston high-class sphere. I was 1 contact away from cast members of Southern Charm. No one here is just assuming things, we've actually been there. You can believe what you want to believe, but I'm not just making an assumption, I have both seen it and been apart of it.

And just because some companies throw out diversity initiatives doesn't mean minority groups are going to swarm like bees. Companies all over the US have these plans and initiatives. And typically these less focus on race and moreso putting women in power roles.

I'm just assuming youre heavy with this point because you see it as an inferiority against Charleston. Sorry but it is what it is. Charleston is probably the only city to apologize for slavery which is great, but that doesn't do much outside of symbolism. It is just easier elsewhere. That does not mean its impossible.

I dont know exactly what Idaho, and Utah, and Maine, and North Dakota are doing, but its working.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlestondata View Post
Is it possible that there has been an increase in well-paying jobs held by Black professionals here, but that the increase wasn’t enough to offset the number of lower-income Black people who left the region for less expensive housing after selling their houses primarily in downtown and North Charleston to whites moving into urban spots?
A loss is a loss is a loss. That is an obvious argument for Chicago. A loss is still a loss in Chicago.
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Old 09-02-2021, 05:31 PM
 
7,719 posts, read 12,048,985 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlestondata View Post
The Peninsula needs street signs where street signs are missing. That is not going around in circles. That is a fact.

Yes, I know that statewide there are issues. I know that nationwide there are issues. I was merely making a point.

Whether the street signs I mentioned were ever there, or got blown away by Hugo, or whether a thief needed some metal, the peninsula needs street signs where they are absent.

If you don’t want to go around in circles, cite your examples and I’ll cite mine. Stay in your lane.
They need to do a dorm sweep at College of Charleston... I am sure some fraternity is collecting them...
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Old 09-02-2021, 05:47 PM
 
7,719 posts, read 12,048,985 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jandrew5 View Post
Lordy, I mean, I'm AA, and I feel that way. Other poster who are AA said the same thing, so. I've literally been in that reality and was in the Charleston high-class sphere. I was 1 contact away from cast members of Southern Charm. No one here is just assuming things, we've actually been there. You can believe what you want to believe, but I'm not just making an assumption, I have both seen it and been apart of it.

And just because some companies throw out diversity initiatives doesn't mean minority groups are going to swarm like bees. Companies all over the US have these plans and initiatives. And typically these less focus on race and moreso putting women in power roles.

I'm just assuming youre heavy with this point because you see it as an inferiority against Charleston. Sorry but it is what it is. Charleston is probably the only city to apologize for slavery which is great, but that doesn't do much outside of symbolism. It is just easier elsewhere. That does not mean its impossible.

I dont know exactly what Idaho, and Utah, and Maine, and North Dakota are doing, but its working.



A loss is a loss is a loss. That is an obvious argument for Chicago. A loss is still a loss in Chicago.
I can see AA moving to Idaho.. Boise is a desirable city for many fleeing the cost of living/expenses in California and maybe even parts of the NW.. Same could be said for Salt Lake City.. though its likely more conservative than many places. Portland (Maine) is not a bad city and is still on the eastern seaboard.... Maybe many of these cities have more job opportunities......North Dakota? That one is beyond me...
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Old 09-02-2021, 06:00 PM
 
Location: South of Cakalaki
5,352 posts, read 3,861,806 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodlands View Post
I can see AA moving to Idaho.. Boise is a desirable city for many fleeing the cost of living/expenses in California and maybe even parts of the NW.. Same could be said for Salt Lake City.. though its likely more conservative than many places. Portland (Maine) is not a bad city and is still on the eastern seaboard.... Maybe many of these cities have more job opportunities......North Dakota? That one is beyond me...
That area tends to be incredibly white, IMHO. Not scientific, but the numbers back me up.

Edit: Boise is 1.5% AA.
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Old 09-02-2021, 06:09 PM
 
Location: TPA
6,482 posts, read 5,816,082 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodlands View Post
I can see AA moving to Idaho.. Boise is a desirable city for many fleeing the cost of living/expenses in California and maybe even parts of the NW.. Same could be said for Salt Lake City.. though its likely more conservative than many places. Portland (Maine) is not a bad city and is still on the eastern seaboard.... Maybe many of these cities have more job opportunities......North Dakota? That one is beyond me...
Salt Lake is actually not conservative. I just learned this. The city is very liberal, the county liberal leaning, the metro more light purple. The Mormons dont dominate life in Utah like the protestants in Alabama. Not sure I even met a mormon because nobody made it obvious. Utah also has the genuine nicest people ive ever met of any state, which made it easier to tolerate as a minority, so I could see it (minus Jazz fans).

North Dakota...yeah I dont know either. I thought everybody left after the oil went bust. Idaho, can't see east coast AA's heading way out there. I'm willing to bet the good majority of the 62k AA's that left California went to Idaho, Washington, Arizona, and Nevada (and Texas). All the Idaho ones probably came from California. Still...North Dakota??... Portland, ME, idk, I dont get that one. Could be people escaping NYC and Boston, though I dont know because MA grew, and I think NYC did too. I dont know, dont get it. Seems like Boston would be a better bet than Maine, but.

North Dakota...that one is a real stumper....incredibly random.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodlands View Post
They need to do a dorm sweep at College of Charleston... I am sure some fraternity is collecting them...
I saw this lol, you are correct...
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Old 09-02-2021, 06:15 PM
 
7,719 posts, read 12,048,985 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlestondata View Post
What about places that lost white people but gained Black people? What questions should those places be asking? Or should they believe it doesn’t matter as long as they are gaining people?
My guess is that.. from a historical perspective.....if an area lost white people and gained black people it would raise flags from politicians down to the business community. That unfortunately goes back to the history of redlining, white flight, urban renewal , voting districts etc that I am sure you know about or have read elsewhere. .From that.... conclusions are drawn that the area is in decline which in fact actually becomes a self fulfilling prophecy as investment looks elsewhere.. The real issue is likely more so income than race...although income is often tied to race. If those white people that left were replaced by blacks of the same economic status then IN THEORY, from an economic base perspective little changes.. but that doesnt stop individual/group bias or discrimination.

I am reminded of Prince George's County Maryland outside of DC which is said to be the richest or second richest predominately African American County in the United States and still has problems landing some descent grocery stores and restaurants that would not be an issue if the demographics were different.. That is from very public statements/commentary from their residents and politicos. I believe Fulton County GA is #1 or #2 but I dont know if they have the same issue as described by the folks in Prince George's County MD about their community. If the answer is "no" it would be interesting to compare and contrast the two areas to find out what the root issue may be....

So back to your comment about "who cares". I agree all things equal no one should care.. but that unfortunately is often not the case.
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Old 09-02-2021, 06:24 PM
 
Location: TPA
6,482 posts, read 5,816,082 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodlands View Post
My guess is that.. from a historical perspective.....if an area lost white people and gained black people it would raise flags from politicians down to the business community. That unfortunately goes back to the history of redlining, white flight, urban renewal , voting districts etc that I am sure you know about or have read elsewhere. .From that.... conclusions are drawn that the area is in decline which in fact actually becomes a self fulfilling prophecy as investment looks elsewhere.. The real issue is likely more so income than race...although income is often tied to race. If those white people that left were replaced by blacks of the same economic status then IN THEORY, from an economic base perspective little changes.. but that doesnt stop individual/group bias or discrimination.

I am reminded of Prince George's County Maryland outside of DC which is said to be the richest or second richest predominately African American County in the United States and still has problems landing some descent grocery stores and restaurants that would not be an issue if the demographics were different.. That is from very public statements/commentary from their residents and politicos. I believe Fulton County GA is #1 or #2 but I dont know if they have the same issue as described by the folks in Prince George's County MD about their community. If the answer is "no" it would be interesting to compare and contrast the two areas to find out what the root issue may be....

So back to your comment about "who cares". I agree all things equal no one should care.. but that unfortunately is often not the case.
PG County is #1, and great post. I spent time in PG County and definitely noticed a contrast from Montgomery. Everyone can prosper in DC, but for AA's specifically, its a lot easier than most other places, even with the cost of living.
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Old 09-02-2021, 08:00 PM
 
37,250 posts, read 38,130,588 times
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Originally Posted by Jandrew5 View Post
Agreed for the most part. Will say the HBCUs makes sense, but is a little overblown. Orangeburg has 2 and we see what direction its going in.
True but Orangeburg is in the Columbia CSA and there's a strong connection between the two. SC State, the state's only 4 yr public HBCU, in particular attracts a lot of students from Columbia and many faculty members of Calflin and State choose to reside in Columbia and commute. So in reality, greater Columbia has four HBCUs.

Quote:
Atlanta has multiple but is a black mecca regardless. States with very low black populations like Utah, Nevada, Idaho, Arizona, Maine, the Dakotas, and Kentucky all gained in AA's while SC and Charleston dropped and they have barely zero black culture. Arizona alone gained 80K. North Dakota somehow gained 18k. Even Maine gained 10K while SC lost 10k. I guess thats where they all went. It is true that having an HBCU will help. Thing is HBCU's are generally smaller enrollment wise. Even Morehouse which is one of the most well known, only has 2300. Charleston Southern and Furman beat that.
The population and racial dynamics out West and in New England are a bit different but I get what you're saying. AZ and NV are benefitting from the California exodus and I hear good things mentioned about Phoenix and Las Vegas from Black folks. UT and ID are LDS-central with negligible base Black populations but have booming primary cities with a great QOL so I'm not surprised to see Black growth in those states. ND was probably attributable to the energy boom but SD, ME, and KY are interesting.

With Atlanta's schools, Morehouse is interesting, not only because of prestige and being the only school of its kind in the country, but because it's also associated closely with Spelman as a sister institution and Morehouse School of Medicine as a spinoff institution. Atlanta's private HBCUs (except MBC which is working its way back after regaining accreditation) are small but have valuable niches that make them a combined force to be reckoned with: only all male HBCU, the much more well-known of only two all-female HBCUs, one of a few Black medical schools, and the only Black seminary consortium in the country. It's weird that Clark is the only public 4-year HBCU in the metro and thus the largest, but Atlanta's secret weapon as far as Black folks and universities go is actually Georgia State (which is huge) which produces more Black graduates than any other school in the country annually. A lot of Black folks from out of state pursue graduate degrees there as well.

Now the metro that you'd think would be posting stronger Black population growth numbers given its overall rapid growth, concentration of HBCUs (2nd largest after Atlanta as a MSA), and collection of colleges and universities generally, is Nashville.

Quote:
Also feel like the expense part is subjective, because AA's are moving to states that are more expensive in general than SC, and theyre clearly not moving to rural areas. Maryland is not cheap and almost gained as much AA's as NC and VA combined. Massachusetts/Boston is not cheap either and gained 60k. And i'd presume most black people in WA are going towards Seattle. WA went up 67k.
Yes but all those states provide employment opportunities that are worth, and justify, the COL. The federal government in MD, healthcare/biotech/higher ed (and immigration) in MA, and Amazon/Microsoft in WA. I know Black folks that have migrated to all three to work in all their signature industries and are doing well.

Quote:
I would presume the expense problem is localized, and goes back to your good argument about the history and culture. It is simply easier to prosper as an AA in the DMV than it is Charleston, for multiple reasons, and they make more money.

The whole state dropped but the argument has been on Charleston. When it comes to Chas specifically, I think the biggest issue is simply lack of opportunity compared to other nearby places, gentrification, local expense, and simply the culture. Watch Southern Charm. 7 seasons I dont recall a black face. Not representative of Charleston in reality. Also a rise in biracial relationships.

There's been so much focus on AA, I never did a get a chance the study the others. SC's hispanic population patterns is another one to survey.
Yep. I hate the fact that the Black culture in Charleston is rich based on history and heritage but feels stagnant. The Black community in Columbia, by contrast, feels more empowered. Prominent Black churches like Bible Way Church of Atlas Rd (pastored by state Sen. Darrell Jackson) and Brookland Baptist Church in West Columbia, are highly involved in community development and improvement, the next mayor could be the first Black woman to hold the office, the state's only Black-owned bank is based there, there's a noticeable/strong middle-class/affluent Black presence in northeast Richland and the Irmo area, and of course the regional economic base is able to absorb the professional Black population and compensate them in accordance with the COL. That last reason is why I hope that as Columbia progresses, it doesn't overheat and throws that balance out of whack. Richmond, VA is a good model for Columbia (without rampant gentrification) with an above average population growth and strong, although underrecognized, economic growth and an invested middle-class Black population. I hope the focus will be on becoming a higher quality version of itself and not necessarily a destination city in an effort to keep up with in-state peers. But it should do MUCH better in promoting itself and preserving/maintaining its cherished civic assets.
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Old 09-02-2021, 08:06 PM
 
37,250 posts, read 38,130,588 times
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Originally Posted by Charlestondata View Post
If a place, say a county that’s part of a metro, had a moderate gain overall but lost white residents, should that be seen as a bad thing? Or neither bad nor good but just a fact? Or even as a good thing with the outlook of Blacks being the future of high GDP places? Not a slight gain in whites, but a loss. Just as we may ask what’s going on with a place losing Black residents, should we also ask what’s going on with a place losing white ones? Why are Blacks leaving? Why are whites leaving?
Usually there's already a good idea of what's happening when the socioeconomic dynamics of a metro are well-known. In parts of metro Atlanta and DC, such migration patterns have correlated with a rise in median household incomes and such. Of course in the aftermath of the Great Recession, too often it was the reverse but that seems to have petered out somewhat.
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Old 09-02-2021, 08:29 PM
 
Location: TPA
6,482 posts, read 5,816,082 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
True but Orangeburg...
You may not realized but you said of a lot of things ive already said. Also i have strong family ties to SCSU, I know the vibe, but the strength just isnt that vast. Even with SCSU and Claflin nearby, and Benedict in town, Columbia is USC's city (which obviously a lot of AA's attend anyways) and Columbia doesnt do a terrible job holding onto alumni says linkedin, and common knowledge. Yeah I dont know whats up with Nashville. There's obviously history there. Didn't help that they destroyed much of the black neighborhoods with the downtown loop, but that's another debate. A&T has a good hold on Greensboro though and Howard of course makes its name known in DC with 5000 other universities there.

And yes of course the black dynamic in the PNW is not the same as the SE. Regardless of that fact, the growth in these states was still substantial, especially considering the national growth, and the fact that SC, a legacy AA state, dropped. North Dakota gaining 18k really raises a point, even if its one that doesnt make that much sense. Ole, North Dakota...

Yes the stagnance is unfortunate, but it is what it is. And yeah hopefully Columbia realizes what it has sitting right there, but doesn't let it get ran away with. Columbia is growing the slowest of the big 3, but imo it has the most opportunity to transform as a whole.
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