North or South Carolina? (Columbia, Charleston: middle-class, fit in, house)

[anonymous]

dawn, asking me to tell you about racism is bound to stir up controversy, and may not be a good idea. but i'll give it my best shot without offending anybody. it's something that people don't like to talk about, and it seems like it's been "hidden" underneath a lot of the discussions here.

most people in the U.S. don't have a clue what racism is, and much more importantly, WHY it exists. most people's experiences with racism are limited to what television and movies tell them. so when they see anything vaguely approaching a racial discussion, they say, "That's racism!" and retreat to the comfort of their own self-satisfaction that they are "open minded". these people tend to live in lily-white areas like Colorado, Wisconsin and New Hampshire, where the handful of black people wear sweater vests, drive volvos and play golf.

in the south, we don't have that luxury. as a parent, you have to be able to explain reality to your 7-year-old when he asks, "Daddy, why are all the black people poor?" What do you say? You could say.. "Son, because they are black." That would be racist. That's what most northerners like to think that southerners believe - that we have some sort of "institutionalized racism" where all white people teach their children to hate black people. they fail to realize that most people's perception of black culture is based solely on what they see themselves. And if you don't live down here, then you don't see it, and thus you don't understand it.

You could try your best to explain to the 7-year-old how things are, and why they're that way. This is the gray area. This is where the big misunderstanding comes in, where the blue-staters get to call the "backwards southerners" a bunch of "racist rednecks." And where they have NO idea what they're talking about.

Blacks used to be slaves. When they were freed, they didn't all magically "rise up" and take jobs as bankers and lawyers. If they didn't move north, they kept the same culture they brought with them from africa. if you don't believe me, try going to a drive-through resturant in somewhere like Sumter or Beaufort. I saw some guy a few weeks ago with Ohio tags say, "I'm sorry, I just can't understand you. Please say that again. I have no idea what you just said. Hello?" He eventually got fed up and drove off.

Having said that, "black culture" in the upstate is different from that in the lowcountry. the upstate wasn't agricultural, didn't have slaves, and thus doesn't have nearly the same cultural/racial environment as the lowcountry. I can't give you much detail on how things are in the upstate, I'm not from there, and I'm not aware of the finer details of racial disharmony up there. A friend of my brother's moved from Simpsonville (upstate) to Sumter (lowcountry) a few years ago, and said that it was like a whole different world. He said, "I never imagined that it could be this bad."

neither black culture or white culture in the south has been able to "merge" the two cultures together. Most blacks don't want to act white. Most whites don't want to act black. They often don't go to the same schools, they don't hang out together, etc., etc. Now, we've been slowly chipping away at this. My generation is more understanding than my dad's generation, which was more understanding than his dad's generation.

when I was 13 or 14, my mom took me & my brother to California for a few weeks. I was in shock - I grew up in a very poor & segregated town, and I'd never seen well-dressed, successful, articulate black people before. I'd known a few, but we're talking about 1 in 100. It was definitely a turning point for me. so if you're expecting your children to be forcedly "taught" racist ideas, then you don't need to worry. but the burden is on you to take them to other places in the country, so they realize that it is a CULTURAL issue and not a RACIAL issue.

that's my .02, I hope I didn't step on anybody's toes. That's just the most honest way I can explain it. If what I said makes you think I'm a racist, then fine, I can deal with that.

[salatheel]

That's what my wife is most worried about. We are a white couple that are very anti-racist. She is afraid of the intolerance of the majority even though we are in the majority. She said she noticed some of it down there. I myself did not.

[dawn193]

Anonymous, that was a well though out, honest reply. I can understand how that can be. Thanks a lot.

[anonymous]

salatheel, all I'm recommending is that you (and other miscellaneous northerners) refrain from making premature judgements on southerners, white or black. If you really are open minded, you'll come down here and try to evaluate things based on the reality of your location, not on what was most acceptable 'back home'. It takes several years of living here, and building up enough bad experiences to even get a rudimentary understanding of what it's like.

It's funny - while I agree with the ideas of tolerance and anti-racism, actually talking about it makes it sound like something you read in a book. It's like the guy who's a rabid pro-war advocate, but it's not HIS kid that's getting blown up in Iraq.

The truth is, 95% of black neighborhoods in the south aren't nice places. Routine shootings, domestic violence, robbery, prostitution, drug use, assault and battery, gangs, you name it. If you live near one of those neighborhoods, you're going to get spillover. When I leave my house, it's like playing dodge-the-crackheads on the way to work. Black mama's standing in the the turning lane of a 4-lane 45mph road pushing a baby stroller. Gunshots at night. When I was a teenager (14 or 15), I got jumped for no apparent reason by a bunch of black kids. I could write a freaking book on the bad experiences I've had with black people. And they make up 45% of the population. But you know what? It wouldn't matter. There would still be people preaching "tolerance" and thinking, "Evil white supremacist.." And they would tell me that I'm a racist, and I'm this and that, and I should think this way or that way. And you know what? They don't live here! They don't have to deal with any of it!

My point is, if you're going to talk about tolerance, go live in the ghetto in South Sumter, or two notch in Columbia. Then I'll listen to every word you say. Otherwise, you're better off just staying quiet and dealing with it like everybody else down here does.

I'm sorry that we have to discuss this. But you can pick up any number of books, watch TV programs, and discuss with people the number of awful things that white people have done to black people in the south. And nearly all of it is the truth. But nobody, and I mean NOBODY ever has the nerve to tell you what it's like being a white person dealing with african culture. And if they do, they're either declared automatically wrong or automatically a racist (regardless of their personal beliefs on the issue).

[dawn193]

One more thing maybe you can help with anonymous, whenever I look at houses in the upstate where I'm researching for relocation, everyones lawn looks so brown and dry! Is this exactly like Florida even in the upstate?! Why does NC seem so lush and green in comparison? Or is that just the few pictures I've seen? Since the upstate is more toward the mountains I didn't think it would be so dry and brown looking. Can you elaborate?

[anonymous]

Well, the flora of Florida is different than NC/SC. At least from what I've seen on the interstate, central/south Florida has tons of palm trees and short scrubby bushes. They don't seem to have large hardwood forests like the Carolinas.

But as far as everything being brown in the upstate, lol, all I can figure is that the pictures were taken in the winter. Things do get brown and dreary here in the wintertime. If you're talking about aerial photography, they always take those in the wintertime. Otherwise the trees and various plants obstruct your view.

But in the spring, the azaleas bloom, things turn lush and green. The upstate is going to be less 'lush and green' than the lowcountry is, but I certainly wouldn't call it dry and brown. And there is no difference in NC and SC in this way. Even the mountains of NC are pretty and green in the springtime.

city-data.com has some pictures of the upstate, and it looks like they are taken in Spring/Summer

http://www.city-data.com/city/Greenv...-Carolina.html
http://www.city-data.com/city/Sparta...-Carolina.html
http://www.city-data.com/city/Simpso...-Carolina.html

[dawn193]

Thanks so much anonymous! You are just a font of information! Another question I posted somewhere once on this board and never got an answer: Greenville scores #1 in the country with worst air quality! Why do you think that is? It looks like a lovely setting. My son has seasonal (springtime sometimes fall) asthma and I was wondering why it scores so high. My town in NJ scored way better than Greenville in air quality, go figure. Any idea? Thanks!

[Marks]

Originally Posted by dawn193

Greenville scores #1 in the country with worst air quality!...My town in NJ scored way better than Greenville in air quality, go figure.

Dawn, I don't know where your getting your information from, but your post saying that Greenville has the worst air quality is not accurate at all. In fact if you Google "cities with the worst air quality" no South Carolina city is even in the top 25? So please refrain from making inaccurate statements without facts.

Thanks,

Mark

[KMT]

I like to go to link removed It is a great site with much information...including air quality. Check it out and let me know what you think.

Keith

[lovethecarolinas]

Originally Posted by KMT

I like to go to link removed. It is a great site with much information...including air quality. Check it out and let me know what you think.

Keith

hey there Keith..and anyone else out there that happens to be getting stats from various locations...I will use "Sperlings" Bestplaces as an example since you mention it on the above post (although I know there are many others out there)...yes, these stats might work just fine in areas where you are currently located at (most likely very popluated locations) but when it comes to areas such as ours (both South and North Carolina) don't believe everything you read. Example: if I go to bestplaces.net and type in my zip code for Tega Cay (29708) I know this zip code is also for parts of Fort Mill Township (so...so much for those figures). Now say you want to look up stats for the city of Fort Mill...many of them do not include the Fort Mill township area (which this is the fastest growing part)....okay so if I haven't lost you yet..there is also an area out here that is called Indian Land....Indian Land is part of Lancaster County...But...Indian Land (which you won't find on many maps) has a Fort Mill zip code (Indian Land is in close proximity to Charlotte (South/Ballantyne area)....the last thing I will mention is...if you see our air quality in York County....(they use Charlotte, NC)....there is more...but I am just trying to give examples of why things are not so black and white with the stats you might find (best source of most current and accurate information...local city/town sites, school district sites, and local newspapers, and police sites).