Greenville and Columbia's unemployment rate now above 15%.

[Akhenaton06]

Originally Posted by NewYorkBorn

You are right. There are always some jewels that stand out. Charlotte, NC is one that stands out and Atlanta, GA is the other one.......but these 2 cities are the exception not the rule in the south. These two citys were smart and decided to step out of the way of progress.

It seems that you're unaware of major progress happening elsewhere in the South if you think that Charlotte and Atlanta are the only two "exceptions." Raleigh, Nashville, Austin, Dallas, Fort Worth, Houston, Northern Virginia, etc. are all examples as well. In other words, the major metropolitan areas of the South all have well diversified economies, and it's the same way in the North. The only difference are the industries that were prevalent in each region.

Unfortunately in SC.......this state wasted a lot of years relying on manufacturing jobs......instead of making an aggressive campaign to attract other industries to the state. I hear the same argument all the time in the Greenville forum about the fact that BMW, Michelin and other companys have a (headquarters) manufacturing presence here. What the people who bring this up fail to realize is that the motivation for those companys to locate here in SC was not just the incentives given to them by the state of SC.........but also the ready availability of a cheap labor force. These companies located here in SC because they knew they could pay the citizens here low wages and therefore save money.

I don't know about Michelin, but I know that BMW and other auto manufacturers in the South compare pretty evenly with Northern auto manufacturers in terms of pay and bonuses--all without unions, which have all but sucked the life out of states like Michigan and Ohio.

Some of this problem is a lack of vision on the part of the leaders in SC and some of it is the citizens fighting against change. What really amazes me is that Greenville for example is sitting right in the middle of Charlotte, NC and Atlanta, GA! How on earth does a city sit in the middle of progress that has been happening in these other cities for at least the last 20 years and not think that maybe they should follow the Charlotte or Atlanta model toward economic growth and diversity?

Well, it's not really that simple as both cities have followed different paths to prosperity that simply cannot be duplicated. For Atlanta, it was a combination of built-in advantages (transportation network, state capital) and taking advantage of one-time opportunities (i.e., the airport). For Charlotte, it was largely state leadership (i.e., loosening of the banking laws) coupled with aggressive local business leaders (Hugh McColl and others before him). But we can now see Charlotte struggling a little because we've relied mainly on banking to take us to the top. And understand that cities tend to progress in cycles. First it was Atlanta, then Charlotte. More recently, it's been Raleigh. And I think Greenville is taking the necessary steps to be included in the next cycle.

[NewYorkBorn]

Originally Posted by Akhenaton06

It seems that you're unaware of major progress happening elsewhere in the South if you think that Charlotte and Atlanta are the only two "exceptions." Raleigh, Nashville, Austin, Dallas, Fort Worth, Houston, Northern Virginia, etc. are all examples as well. In other words, the major metropolitan areas of the South all have well diversified economies, and it's the same way in the North. The only difference are the industries that were prevalent in each region.

I don't know about Michelin, but I know that BMW and other auto manufacturers in the South compare pretty evenly with Northern auto manufacturers in terms of pay and bonuses--all without unions, which have all but sucked the life out of states like Michigan and Ohio.

Well, it's not really that simple as both cities have followed different paths to prosperity that simply cannot be duplicated. For Atlanta, it was a combination of built-in advantages (transportation network, state capital) and taking advantage of one-time opportunities (i.e., the airport). For Charlotte, it was largely state leadership (i.e., loosening of the banking laws) coupled with aggressive local business leaders (Hugh McColl and others before him). But we can now see Charlotte struggling a little because we've relied mainly on banking to take us to the top. And understand that cities tend to progress in cycles. First it was Atlanta, then Charlotte. More recently, it's been Raleigh. And I think Greenville is taking the necessary steps to be included in the next cycle.

I sure hope you are right about Greenville. Greenville is a beautiful city........offers some real potential and appeal. Part of the potential and appeal is tied to the fact that it is largely unspoiled and not overbuilt. As someone who was born and raised in a much bigger city........I am used to living in a place that offers a lot of every type of work........not just a reliance on a few industries. But at the same time I believe that the progress here has to be done with a balance.......for instance we need better pay scales here but not the overcrowding that usually happens in citys that have good paying jobs.

As far as BMW & Michelin and the pay scales compared to north and south.......that is not my concern. Yes they both are good companies........but the heavy reliance on manufacturing jobs is what really concerns me. As it stands here in Greenville right now........if a persons background does not involve some form of manufacturing or working in a hospital........then they find themselves with no choice but to work in low paying retail jobs or supermarkets. As you mentioned though cities do tend to progress in cycles.......it remains to be seen what happens here in Greenville in the future.

Excellent post, I have enjoyed reading it.

[Greenville]

Originally Posted by NewYorkBorn

I sure hope you are right about Greenville. Greenville is a beautiful city........offers some real potential and appeal. Part of the potential and appeal is tied to the fact that it is largely unspoiled and not overbuilt. As someone who was born and raised in a much bigger city........I am used to living in a place that offers a lot of every type of work........not just a reliance on a few industries. But at the same time I believe that the progress here has to be done with a balance.......for instance we need better pay scales here but not the overcrowding that usually happens in citys that have good paying jobs.

As far as BMW & Michelin and the pay scales compared to north and south.......that is not my concern. Yes they both are good companies........but the heavy reliance on manufacturing jobs is what really concerns me. As it stands here in Greenville right now........if a persons background does not involve some form of manufacturing or working in a hospital........then they find themselves with no choice but to work in low paying retail jobs or supermarkets. As you mentioned though cities do tend to progress in cycles.......it remains to be seen what happens here in Greenville in the future.

Excellent post, I have enjoyed reading it.

Just so everyone knows, this "nice" post will surely be used by NewYorkBorn later as an example of him being kind and/or objective about Greenville. I hope nobody buys it.

As for the details of the post, I do not know where you get the idea that Greenville jobs are either manufacturing or hospital-related. I would love to see some data to back that up, NYB. As usual, this is almost definitely the result of your subjective perceptions rather than reality.

Since you obviously don't know, Greenville has a good amount of banking jobs (including the largest bank in SC), the most engineers per capita of any US city, plenty of attorneys, architects, doctors, teachers, etc. Plus, there are many private business owners who have restaurants, retail stores, etc. If you look into it, most people DON'T work in manufacturing or health care in Greenville.

[Skyliner]

NYB, What about the thousands of engineers living and working in Greenville? What about the large number of people living and working in the advertising industry here in Greenville? What about the large number of people living and working in the banking industry here in Greenville and elsewhere in the Upstate? How about the massive Education industry? I could go on, the evidence clearly disproving your recurring inaccurate statement.

Greenville is obviously far more industrially diverse than you realize. Manufacturing is certainly an important industry in the region, however it does not remotely represent the majority of the workforce in Greenville. Retail is as important here as it is in any other city or region of equal size. It seems that you have very little knowledge about the total job market in Greenville.

Edit: I see Greenville (the member) and I were thinking exactly the same thing. I was slower to post a reply.

[Tinabean]

Originally Posted by Buckeye in SC

I respectfully disagree w/you on that, a casino will be mostly more of the same as far as low-paying tourist type jobs. Very few people that work in the casino make good money. Would it add more jobs, sure, but the state already has plenty of low-level/low-pay jobs as it is.

I see your point with regards to the types of positions the casino would generate. But I was thinking, that overall, the casino would generate a new energy and focus that might help to enhance the overall image of MB, now known far and wide as the "Redneck Riviera". I'm not familiar with how Harrah's impacted North Carolina. I'm just saying that maybe we look at the model, see what was done well and if it might be a good opportunity for S.C. to expand upon. We just have to think outside of the box and, usually, if you can build upon ideas that are working in similar areas you save time and $$ by not recreating the wheel.

[gsupstate]

Originally Posted by NewYorkBorn

As far as BMW & Michelin and the pay scales compared to north and south.......that is not my concern. Yes they both are good companies........but the heavy reliance on manufacturing jobs is what really concerns me.

You sooooo don't even know anything about the area. Michelin is much more than manufacturing. Michelin has it's North American headquarters on a campus on the Eastside of Greenville that is all six figure and high five figure white collar jobs. Michelins well paid research team is also in the Greenville area.....again, white collar, high paid research jobs.

Please know your facts.

[Greenville]

Originally Posted by gsupstate

You sooooo don't even know anything about the area. Michelin is much more than manufacturing. Michelin has it's North American headquarters on a campus on the Eastside of Greenville that is all six figure and high five figure white collar jobs. Michelins well paid research team is also in the Greenville area.....again, white collar, high paid research jobs.

Please know your facts.

Exactly. In addition, BMW Manufacturing's North American Headquarters in Greer also has a sizable number of high-salaried and white collar jobs. Everyone who works there isn't an hourly wage worker, as NewYorkBorn seems to imply.

[g-man430]

Actually, BMW's North American headquarters is in New Jersey.

[NewYorkBorn]

Originally Posted by gsupstate

You sooooo don't even know anything about the area. Michelin is much more than manufacturing. Michelin has it's North American headquarters on a campus on the Eastside of Greenville that is all six figure and high five figure white collar jobs. Michelins well paid research team is also in the Greenville area.....again, white collar, high paid research jobs.

Please know your facts.

Those that hold those good paying white collar jobs at Michelin and the other company's here are in a small, elite group. In other words these people are the exception........not the rule here in SC.

The AVERAGE PERSON (vast majority of the people) are working the plentiful low paying jobs that we have here in SC......they outnumber those holding the good paying white collar jobs by 3 to 1. Let me be clear on this too........not everyone has the education, skill set or mentality to work corporate white collar jobs.......and that is fine too.

My guess is that you are going to try and convince me next that SC and specifically Greenville is known around the US as a high paying state and city! If this were true then the cost of living here would be a lot higher because the demand to live here would be a lot higher.

We disagree and that is fine too. You are entitled to your opinion and I respect it.

[Greenville]

Originally Posted by g-man430

Actually, BMW's North American headquarters is in New Jersey.

Yes, but Greer has the North American manufacturing headquarters.