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My main question is: Why are other cities like Columbia's city limit populations so much larger than Greenville's if we're all subject to the same annexation regime?
The only thing I can say to that is, Columbia at least since I've moved here, is very adamant about new developments being annexed to the city limits (similar to the Rock Hill situation) if they want water/sewer, so the 75% of residents isn't an issue, b/c the developer agrees to annex before a house is even built.
That's what I really hate about SC's laws. And, the perceived lack of population base can (I've read elsewhere) hurt a city's chances of getting better retail or other businesses. I actually believe I saw a quote where Greenville's mayor said something to that effect recently.
My main question is: Why are other cities like Columbia's city limit populations so much larger than Greenville's if we're all subject to the same annexation regime?
I think Columbia has been more aggressive than Greenville over the years. I dont know the demographic or socio-economic conditions of Greenville. But in the 80s Columbia faced some real tax base challenges. Much of the retail and residential development was fleeing the City leaving behind some blue blood older intown well to do neighborhoods (i.e. Shandon and Elmwood Park); some well to do older intown suburbs (area around the VA Hospital, Trenholm Road areas); and many low and lower income areas (parts of Eau Claire, Waverly, sections of Rosewood and Olympia). The City had to annex in order to increase its tax base which was shrinking.. A huge battle erupted in Irmo over the Columbiana Center that eventually led to the Town of Irmo to cede from Richland into Lexington County...though that was not their only reason for doing so.
Today there are still some unresolved challenges.. 1) Law Enforcement.. do we really need a CPD and Sheriff's Dept? Why not just have a Unified Department under a jointly appointed Commissioner and let the Sheriff's Office just handle jail, court security, warrants, evictions, and prisoners
2) Planning Department... This is a HUGE issue. A doughnut hole in the middle of a the City falls under the jurisdiction of the County's Planning Department though clearly the residents that would be mostly impacted live in the City??? One example of this is the low income rental housing development built on the bluffs of 277 just north of the Clyburn Overpass. The City refused to provide services for this property because they didnt want to add low income residents to the area around The Colony and Bethel Bishop Apts. where there was already a large concentration of low income residents and crime. The developer's annexation petition was denied. He still forced the City's hand (I believe with some DHEC help) to provide water and sewer because the development could not be on septic service or wells given its urban location. He did however have to build a water tower or some type of water system (that purchased water from the City) to serve the development. The City may now own that system but I cant say for sure. To this day I dont believe the site is within the City Limits.
An upcoming issue could be the future of the area along Bluff and Shop Roads.. Its becoming a USC Campus South but development could be hindered by the older industrial zoning and/or the continuation of the development of industrial uses in the area. Most of the USC development is in the City. The industrial stuff is in the County. A unified Planning Department could work to Plan the entire area not just what is inside or outside of the City. Without that the area may develop into a hodge podge of uses that benefit no one collectively. To date I believe a quarry is being proposed somewhere off of Bluff near the student apartments and the old Farmers' Market which is also scheduled to be redeveloped. Then you have other issues such as Arthurtown and Washington Estates... two lower income African American neighborhoods that have petitioned previous Mayors for annexation in order to receive services. They have been denied after cost benefit analysis ruled that the infrastructure improvements required would not be suppported by the taxes gained. This issue may come up again as development continues in these two corridors.
Last edited by Woodlands; 01-04-2011 at 12:49 PM..
The only thing I can say to that is, Columbia at least since I've moved here, is very adamant about new developments being annexed to the city limits (similar to the Rock Hill situation) if they want water/sewer, so the 75% of residents isn't an issue, b/c the developer agrees to annex before a house is even built.
Anyone that buys a home outside the city limits and they have city water and/or sewer, they better question exactly how that city water/sewer got there.
My main question is: Why are other cities like Columbia's city limit populations so much larger than Greenville's if we're all subject to the same annexation regime?
I don't know if it's the case in Greenville, Spartanburg or Anderson, but there are demographic considerations.
As freewheeling as NC's annexation laws are, there are a few cities that could annex (by current guidelines) some very large swaths of unincorporated suburban territory, but have chosen a rather timid approach (by NC standards) in doing so: Hickory, Gastonia, Wilmington, Asheville all spring to mind. Asheville could easily boost it's population to at least 90,000, Wilmington to something like 140,000, Gastonia to around 85,000, Hickory to 60,000. In some instances those cities' political and racial demographics within their present city limits are something that - for whatever reason - they have some instance in preserving. Witness Fayetteville's massive series of annexations, which boosted it's population from 75,000 to 200,000 over about 18 years, with more than half of that coming in one annexation. I think everyone on city council (along with the mayor) got voted out when the next election cycle hit, and the city's politics notably swung very abruptly to the right. Certain cities - Asheville in particular, with it's professed goals of sustainable development, infill, and a very left-of-center local culture would certainly see changes - perhaps dramatic ones - with any move that would radically alter the demographics of the city.
There's actually a fair degree of variability from one city to another in how NC cities have handled their ability to annex. Charlotte has a very, very orderly process - every other year, areas are identified as they are built out. Each town in or immediately adjacent to Mecklenburg County has an annexation agreement, which basically maps out the ultimate extent of how far each city/town will expand, so folks moving into those areas know from day one that
they will eventually be incorporated into Charlotte, Huntersville, Matthews, Davidson, Cornelius, or Pineville.
Other cities go for the big-bang method, like Fayetteville, and to a lesser degree Greensboro and Winston-Salem.
Raleigh, Cary and Greenville only do voluntary annexations - there hasn't been a large involuntary annexation in Raleigh since the 1970s, and I don't know if there's ever been one in Cary. Even with a voluntary-only policy in Wake County, those cities (Raleigh, Cary, Morrisville, Apex, Fuquay-Varina, Holly Springs, Garner, Rolesville, Knightdale, Zebulon, Wendell) all also have annexation agreements, along with an agreement that watershed buffers around the major lakes (drinking water, a nearly 50 sq mile area around Falls Lake, some of which is state park land in a buffer completely surrounding the lake) are to remain unannexed, unincorporated, with no water/sewer run out into them.
Chapel Hill and Carrboro have an urban growth boundary, which has been in place since the 1980s. Within that area they annex fairly aggressively, but the UGB has strict limits, with no water/sewer beyond, and a general discouragement of development. There's a considerable amount of Nature Conservancy and Duke (Univ) Research Forest land (into the 10s of square miles) that generally rings those towns to the N, NW, and NE, so that keeps development or annexations from going too far out.
I don't know if it's the case in Greenville, Spartanburg or Anderson, but there are demographic considerations.
As freewheeling as NC's annexation laws are, there are a few cities that could annex (by current guidelines) some very large swaths of unincorporated suburban territory, but have chosen a rather timid approach (by NC standards) in doing so: Hickory, Gastonia, Wilmington, Asheville all spring to mind. Asheville could easily boost it's population to at least 90,000, Wilmington to something like 140,000, Gastonia to around 85,000, Hickory to 60,000. In some instances those cities' political and racial demographics within their present city limits are something that - for whatever reason - they have some instance in preserving. Witness Fayetteville's massive series of annexations, which boosted it's population from 75,000 to 200,000 over about 18 years, with more than half of that coming in one annexation. I think everyone on city council (along with the mayor) got voted out when the next election cycle hit, and the city's politics notably swung very abruptly to the right. Certain cities - Asheville in particular, with it's professed goals of sustainable development, infill, and a very left-of-center local culture would certainly see changes - perhaps dramatic ones - with any move that would radically alter the demographics of the city.
There's actually a fair degree of variability from one city to another in how NC cities have handled their ability to annex. Charlotte has a very, very orderly process - every other year, areas are identified as they are built out. Each town in or immediately adjacent to Mecklenburg County has an annexation agreement, which basically maps out the ultimate extent of how far each city/town will expand, so folks moving into those areas know from day one that
they will eventually be incorporated into Charlotte, Huntersville, Matthews, Davidson, Cornelius, or Pineville.
Other cities go for the big-bang method, like Fayetteville, and to a lesser degree Greensboro and Winston-Salem.
Raleigh, Cary and Greenville only do voluntary annexations - there hasn't been a large involuntary annexation in Raleigh since the 1970s, and I don't know if there's ever been one in Cary. Even with a voluntary-only policy in Wake County, those cities (Raleigh, Cary, Morrisville, Apex, Fuquay-Varina, Holly Springs, Garner, Rolesville, Knightdale, Zebulon, Wendell) all also have annexation agreements, along with an agreement that watershed buffers around the major lakes (drinking water, a nearly 50 sq mile area around Falls Lake, some of which is state park land in a buffer completely surrounding the lake) are to remain unannexed, unincorporated, with no water/sewer run out into them.
Chapel Hill and Carrboro have an urban growth boundary, which has been in place since the 1980s. Within that area they annex fairly aggressively, but the UGB has strict limits, with no water/sewer beyond, and a general discouragement of development. There's a considerable amount of Nature Conservancy and Duke (Univ) Research Forest land (into the 10s of square miles) that generally rings those towns to the N, NW, and NE, so that keeps development or annexations from going too far out.
Thanks. Very interesting and eye-opening info on NC....
But My question referred to other SC cities, who are (presumably) subject to the exact same annexation laws that Greenville is.
Thanks. Very interesting and eye-opening info on NC....
But My question referred to other SC cities, who are (presumably) subject to the exact same annexation laws that Greenville is.
Maybe Greenville just has not been as aggressive as other SC cities. I'm more familiar with Charleston/N. Charleston/Mt Pleasant's annexation history, which has been to take in as much and as often as possible. For Charleston, with one or two exceptions. things have slowed down to small piece-meal annexations the past 2-3 years due to the economic slowdown. I expect Charleston annexations to take off again once the real estate market gets back on its feet and developers want to start developing raw land again. And if the SC Supreme Court rules against the Town of James Island incorporation, then katy-bar the door.
I wonder if tax base is the reason for the push for expansion??? If they have all these special service and tax district ringing the City.. then its no wonder why they havent been able to expand the corporate limits. It appears they need to get various "agreements" in place to expand into some of these service areas and special tax districts. Hopefully those in charge will see the benefit in the city's expansion and not view it from a turf perspective or political challenge and thus try to limit its growth.
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