Lakota Indians Withdraw Treaties Signed With U.S. 150 Years Ago (Pine Ridge: student loan, home)

[blackhillsdreams]

Originally Posted by smitter

Here is a little something to think about.

Maybe if your ancestors were more careful with their words you people wouldn't be in your "why should we be responsible" predicament.

It is your responsibility by inheritance, because your ancestors signed the treaties to provide, as long as the grass grows and the river flows. Even if it wasn't your particular ancestors that signed the treaties, your ancestors and you have profited, from said treaties.

My opinion is:
Apparently, native foresight provided for more than you think. If you don't like it, move to another country and make treaties that you like better, maybe by then, you will be more adept at wiping out the indigenous.
Maybe, then you can think of your future generations to come too.

You made the rules to play by and now you don't like them. Sorry!
Pretty simple.


I know, I am a terrible person for saying what is the truth.

Didn't think a prairie ****** had a clue did you?


Believe what you will its still is a free country .

Blame it on Russell Means, hell, blame it on Bush, just blame somebody huh?

Oh yeah....Sorry! and ....have a nice day.

I never realized that 140 year old documents had an impact on teen pregnancy, drug abuse, and could cause a man not to want to work. The only "blame" coming from this direction is for people not taking responsibility for themselves, period. SCGranny is right, you can't help those that won't help themselves.

Jammie was just defending her opinion, I happen to agree with her and stepped up to defend her against your ranting. I'm sure she wasn't impressed, if she appreciated it, great, if not, that's OK too. Either way, I was motivated to chime in based on my own experiences.

So for the last time:

• Land granted by treaties that is later sold is no longer the property of the people it was granted to.
• Native languages not being passed down within a people that is free to do so can not be impacted by outside forces, is not the responsibility of people outside the tribe, AND is not the result of a treaty going one way or another.
• Teen Sex, Drugs, and Crime is not the result of the treaty being followed to the letter or not.
• People refusing to work even when offered a job, again, not the result of a treaty disagreement.

I will be the first to step up and say the way the US Government handled the treaties, and treated the Native peoples was wrong 140 years ago and onward. Wounded Knee was a tragedy as was every masquer. That does NOT mean we "inherit" a neverending financial responsibility to the Indian people. Land that was granted was sold, monies that were given were and are spent on drugs and alcohol, housing that is built is trashed. Until the people stand up and change their own hearts, this will never end and Russell's B.S. won't do anything but spread hate and shore up the attitude that allows them to blame others for their situation.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone truly interested in wiping out the indigenous as you put it. I wish all indigenous people were fluent in their language and traditions. I wish all indigenous people were able to educate themselves and find productive occupations. I wish all indigenous people were able to heal themselves of alcohol, drug abuse, teen pregnancy, and crime.

Burn sage, dance, drum and sing native songs, hunt Buffalo every day on YOUR land (i.e. land your ancestors didn't sell). Nobody cares about that, and nobody is trying to stop it.

All the best to you in 2008!

[Chris19]

Very good post blackhillsdreams. I agree with your points and you make your argument in a postive manner. Bitterness and a lack of responsbility for own actions are what is plaguing many Native Americans and there needs to be initiative, vision, and forgiveness of whites (for what happened eons ago) for them to move forward and combat the social ills facing them. Blame will not help matters one bit but cooperation will help.

[smitter]

SCGranny here is some real flaming reading material for you.


http://forums.argusleadermedia.com/v...ic.php?t=12710

http://www.rapidcityjournal.com/arti...rue#commentdiv

[DannyBanany]

Smitter, how do you expect people to have any respect for you and your culture when even you refer to you and your people as "Prairie *******"?

I highly doubt none of us feel that way towards the Native American culture, and being 1/8th Rosebud Sioux I find that very offensive. Ow, now I want you off my land.

[blackhillsdreams]

Hey Smitter,

My Great Uncle was 1/4 Northern Cheyenne, born in the late 1890's. He had more than 1000 acres of land in Tennessee and grew corn, soybeans, raised cattle and horses. In his younger days, he was even a horse trainer for Ringling Brothers, but that's another story.

In any event, My Father grew up on his farm in the 30's and 40's working those fields because his mother died when he was very young and his father traveled the country working. That farm land was my Great Uncles, but it was considered family land.

Later in life, he sold parts of it off as he got older and either didn't have the energy to continue working all the acreage, or needed money. His wife of 50 or so years passed away and he remarried. He then gave large parcels to his new stepsons and left the rest to his new wife before he passed away. My Father didn't inherit anything from him and he himself passed away earlier this year leaving my Brother and Me nothing but a funeral bill.

How far do you think I'd get if I called up Russell and asked him to meet me in Tennessee to demand some of the family land back? If I had a pregnant teen daughter, do you think it would be ok if I called up the current owners of the land and asked them for some cash telling them it was their fault she got pregnant? This is essentially what Russell is doing with his publicity stunt...

[smitter]

DannyBanany Did you like that? Prairie ****** is a term I heard. Just wanted to let those people know, I ain't deaf. I thought, you know, if a persons needs to call names, that is their problem not mine. What do you expect? I personally don't expect anything from you or anyone except maybe human courtesy. Ow now I want you off my land? You are a funny guy. Git R Done.

blackhillsdreams Russell Means, I really doubt he knows as much as he claims,(who does really?); but he is his own person, just happens to like the limelight, I don't know. Maybe he really thinks he is accomplishing something good. I don't know.

What he has done is put enough fire under my butt to reply to a post. Maybe it wasn't a good thing, I don't know, maybe it is, I know for me it has made me speak up, when I never would otherwise, (mind my own business sort of thing). At the very least those things are not getting pushed under the rug....(finish off the the indians through alcohol or whatever)... Russell Means was bringing the camera's to White Clay. Guess what, that didn't change anything either. So maybe we will all just stop thinking and talking about it altogether.
Is that what you'd want to hear?

[Jammie]

Did you just say, "Finish off the Indians through alcohol or whatever"? Are you saying that the white man is ALSO responsible for all the alcoholism on the reservations? Yea, Russell got things started all right. He's make some of you brave enough that you'll do a lot of things yet, but is it good or bad? Do you really expect people to respect the Sioux when all they're looking for is ANOTHER hand out? Just let us know how you can justify getting the land from the government, selling it to others, and then wanting it given back to you. Also, what have the Sioux been doing to support the Arikara all these years since you "stole" their land from them?

Isn't it ironic that one of the few tribes left in the U.S. who have just never felt that they've been given enough or treated right happens to be the Sioux? Maybe they could take a lesson from the Cherokee and many others who have moved on and become self supporting and proud people.

[smitter]

Yes, finish them, off with alcohol. Don't tell me that attitude is not handily available in this state. If you deny that, you really are looking at the world with rose colored glasses.

What is the value of an NDN life here in SD?


I could tell you stories.....but, here's only what the newspapers are writing about recently.

Argus Leader Media - Morning Express

Sioux Falls, no less the shining star of SD.

The Public Opinion

$20,000 dollar bribe, I hope he asks for more.

Do you really expect people to respect the Sioux when all they're looking for is ANOTHER hand out?

Hand out, how about JUSTICE?

I personally don't care what Russel Means does next. But if people are going to be expressing views on Natives here in SD on an information forum they should be able to see another perspective.

The SIOUX are the only ones who actually won any war with the US ( research Red Cloud)that fact probably stung like a thorn in the big wigs side for years and years and years.

The way I hear the cherokee are all blonde now so they pretty much look acceptable anymore , so pretty sure they are doing fine.

[blackhillsdreams]

Originally Posted by smitter

Yes, finish them, off with alcohol. Don't tell me that attitude is not handily available in this state. If you deny that, you really are looking at the world with rose colored glasses.

Hand out, how about JUSTICE?

The SIOUX are the only ones who actually won any war with the US ( research Red Cloud)that fact probably stung like a thorn in the big wigs side for years and years and years.

The way I hear the cherokee are all blonde now so they pretty much look acceptable anymore , so pretty sure they are doing fine.

Wow Smitter,

You really seem upset but certainly not rational. Blonde Cherokee's doing better because they look different? You have got to be kidding me. Do you really think the Lakota are treated a certain way because of the way they look?

Justice? For what? People that were killed 100 years ago were killed by people that are now also dead. If my grandfather shot someone, I owe no debt for it (he didn't, I'm just saying). Justice for the land dealings? Agreements were made, monies were exchanged, and lands were resold later. There is no going back now. When you are talking about Justice, you are really talking about revenge and financial reparations for matters that occurred between people who are all now dead. Why go backward? Why is it so freaking hard to look at where we ALL are NOW, and make a productive plan to go forward trying to solve the existing problems and make things better? You know why????? Because everyone (go to the nearest mirror, cause you're apparently included) is too damn busy sitting around looking for someone else to blame for their troubles saying "oh poor me, none of this is my fault, I'm owed this, that, and the other"....

Red Cloud winning battles? What impact do you think that has on today's issues? Nobody cares about that! The Japanese bombed Pear Harbor, yet I drive a Toyota because it's a good car. Who Cares!

Finishing them off with Alcohol? What are you trying to say? I've sent clothes, I've sent toys, and I've sent money to the res but I'm pretty sure I've never sent a case of beer or whiskey hoping someone would drink themselves to death. What do you think? Do you believe White people have some plan to fund cheap alcohol and ship it to the res?

You are making a very weak and silly argument by saying this is all about race. It isn't at all! It's about behavior and attitudes, period. Nobody cares about the color of Indians skin, the language they want to learn or their traditions! What people don't like is the stereotypical bad image of the drunken/drugged out/pregnant teen/doesn't want to work/holding their hand out for more funds/It's all the white people's fault for my bad behavior Indian. It's not about race, it's about behavior. Guess what, there are many Indians who work hard, appreciate what they have, and have made a life for themselves that feel EXACTLY the same way about their own stereotypical people that give them a bad name.

As an example, I can't stand gangster rap music. For me it is like torture for many reasons, but that doesn't make me a racist. One definition being: Someone who looks down on a person of another race based on color or ethnicity. If a black kid walked in with his pants 1/2 way to his knees listening to gangster rap looking for a job, I wouldn't be anxious to hire him. If he was white, I would feel the same way. It's about behavior, not race.

[Jammie]

What do you mean by "look acceptable"? I find it sad that you honestly think that the whites and blacks or other races don't find the looks of the Sioux "acceptable". When I was a teen, we used to envy our Sioux friends cause they had such nice dark complexions while we had to suntan. Their hair was always long and silky and we had to use tons of conditioner and creme rinses. The only thing that I don't find acceptable is the lack of ambition to accept a hand up and work at self improvement and the way Means and Peltier and Banks have always been able to instigate an uprising. It just drags up things that simply aren't true. Then they go back to their wonderful wealth-filled lives and the rest of us are left back here with all our bad feelings and mistrust of one another.