Refinery in Elk Point. (compensation, live in, moving)

[GraniteStater]

Originally Posted by oldfred

Health - There was a refinery in Sugar Creek in the Kansas City metro area and the cancer rates in that town are very high. This subject makes the local news on a regular basis..

Also, you have plenty of old polluting coal plants in the Kansas City metro area close to where most of the population lives. In my opinion, it is never a good idea to put polluting industry on top of where a large segment of the population lives. Kansas City, KS was brought under an investigation for FAILING to upgrade pollution control devices on power plants. The situation is being dealt with presently.

[egg man]

Chris,
How will you water the lawn when the Big Mo is dry?
As I said from the start of this thread, I believe that should be the biggest concern that will impact the most people.

Yes, Plains 10, it is a tar sands refinery. The pipeline is coming here from Alberta.

No one is answering the question of who will pay for the spill of the pipeline. I'm sure it will end up be the land owner, EPA would naturally pick on the little guy, not the fat cats.

Even last night on SDPTV they *said* this company would be responsible but *no one* has shown a thing in black and white that guarantees that.

Too, doesn't it bother anybody to have all these foreign countries coming down here and doing business? Some day we're going to sit back and ask, "What ever happened to the US?

Also, I have a friend who worked for NASA for years. He said many of the world's scientists say if we don't change our ways and change them fast, we will run out of clean water within the next ten years.

I don't have a lot of faith in Al or his ideas, even though he is a distant cousin. I think global warming is a bunch of bunk. If there is such a thing, I'm glad. I've sure been enjoying the warmer weather we've had the past few winters. We get Kansas winters instead of South Dakota ones, that is until today, Uff Da!

We owe our children and grandchildren the very elements of life. The preservation of our precious water resources belongs to all of us. I guess that's why I get so upset when I go to town and people are wasting water sprinkling their grass! Or better yet, the timed sprinklers that are going while it's raining or are set so they water the sidewalk.

To quote Earl Pitts, "WAKE UP AMERICA!"

[Chris19]

In regards to the lawn watering, there will have to be watering restrictions and heavy fines for those who offend. I think that it should be practice. I also get upset at seeing people watering lawn excessively and retail stores in Sioux Falls are some of the worst offenders in my opinion. Watering lawns excessively and constantlyactually does more harm to the grass than doing occasional watering (which should be done when it is coooler and would be more helpful). It makes the grass more dependent on water and less hardy and able to adapt to drier conditions. Sodding or planting of lawns should be done when the weather is cooler and not in the middle of summer for newer homes.

[egg man]

too, they should plant grass other than bluegrass which was never meant to be grown on the great plains.
Buffalo grass or something else doesn't need watering. Who cares if a lawn is brown. It's just part of the season but one day I was listening to Knobe on KSOO and you can't believe all the doorknobs who called in complaining about the "brown grass on the berms by Westward Ho". Give me a break. Sioux Falls needs to learn that they're not in Ohio, Ky, or even Minnesota.

I for one am glad when the lawn dries up and I don't have to mow a lot.

[Chris19]

I agree with the planting of hardier and/or native grasses that require less watering. Places such as Phoenix should heed this advice also. The water would be better used in other areas than lawn watering. Those who are complaining about the brown grass have little understanding of water supply and the importance of using it wisely.

[GraniteStater]

Originally Posted by egg man

too, they should plant grass other than bluegrass which was never meant to be grown on the great plains.
Buffalo grass or something else doesn't need watering. Who cares if a lawn is brown. It's just part of the season but one day I was listening to Knobe on KSOO and you can't believe all the doorknobs who called in complaining about the "brown grass on the berms by Westward Ho". Give me a break. Sioux Falls needs to learn that they're not in Ohio, Ky, or even Minnesota.

I for one am glad when the lawn dries up and I don't have to mow a lot.

This same issue as come up on the Colorado threads! Bluegrass is often planted in the suburban developments there.

[SCGranny]

Egg man:
Have you spoken to the Corps of Engineers about the water consumption and impacts? They can sometimes be very helpful.

Other people whose help you might enlist are conservation groups. The Sierra Club is very active, especially in protecting wildlife habitats and private property that has wildlife and natural species growing on it.

I know that you and your neighbors feel helpless, but you are not. Eminent domain has become a huge issue; threatening people with it is dangerous for a companies' public image. The people to contact here are your local as well as your State representatives because their jobs depend on your votes. Don't do it quietly; get the media involved. Having (or forming a chapter of) a conservation group in your area can be a powerful force.

With the "oil shortage" (I'm sorry for the quotes, but there is no oil shortage, most of our oil is shipped to China and Asia, and oil companies are using this artificial "oil shortage" as an excuse to go after the previously too-expensive-to-harvest shale and sand oil) you will have an uphill battle and you and your neighbors - and anyone who will be impacted by this - need to get involved and get informed people to help you. Do you have or know of a river conservation group in your area? They might have contacts as well. Would/can the farmers' agencies in your area help?

I am not a greenie tree hugger, but I do believe in equitable treatment of property owners as well as those both down and up river impacted by this type of venture. And one of the first clues to me that there is something else going on here is that you said they will not issue you anything in black and white; the second is that they have threatened you with eminent domain. Your representatives both local and state may have a change of heart if they are met with very public resistance.

(To the folks who complain about grass - I usually tell them I hate grass. Any grass not used for feed or erosion prevention is a waste of soil and water, IMHO. People who waste their time and water on a lawn that has to be green and clipped and edged are people with nothing better to do, or nothing else in which they can take pride. Phoenix, Arizona used to be a wonderfully dry and rocky place - until everyone moved there for the arid climate. Then they all had to have perpetually green lawns and tropical plants - and they literally destroyed their own ecosystem. Now moving there for allergies and breathing problems is a waste of time; they have just as many mold and allergy problems as elsewhere. What happens when they go into a drought? Everyone complains because their plants die. Foolishness.)

[egg man]

Amen Granny!

I hate to say it, but I'm a tired soldier. This is not the first battle we have fought to preserve our environment. In South Dakota you might as well rope the wind. People are so independent they seldom can get together for any cause. Plus, our state seems to be sold out to these guys, having given them the green light long before people knew what was coming down the pike.
And the DENR are not your friends but your foes. They seem to be greased. We had a large CAFO over near the Minnesota state line that had a huge spill that ran over into Minnesota. When the DENR from Minnesota came to check it out, they had a camera and filmed it. Then they followed it into South Dakota and had on film them saying, 'hey, look guys, our tracks in the snow are the first ones. South Dakota hasn't even been here yet."

We brag about no income taxes in South Dakota to get "out of state" and now "out of country" businesses here, but then they end up exploiting our resources, becoming a financial burden to the counties where they are, and then going bust and leaving the poor people of our state with the mess.

How about Homestake? Don't you think they were elated to dump their old deserted mine off on the state? And then when we did have something going like the state Cement Plant, we up and sell it to the Mexicans. Did anyone notice what happened to the price of cement once that happened?

You would think we could look at other states and learn. You could think that we would value our natural resources. I believe the average guy out in the middle of nowhere does, but these guys we send to "represent" us, seem to be easily influenced to *not* represent us.

[SCGranny]

Well, of course; DNR's are funded federally but managed by the state so they have to go along with what the legislature deems appropriate. I have no use for DNR.
Know what you mean about foreign interests going bust and leaving the waste for others to deal with - we had a local site here that had to be declared a Superfund cleanup site because they abandoned the property and left rusting barrels of arsenic solution sitting on site, soaking into the soil and shallower well systems...
Know what you mean about being a tired soldier; I have fought de gummint for 30 years. But there are things worth fighting for - and some of them are the damage to your land and the water you need as well as those who will need it later...
What many people don't realize is that potable water is starting to become a severely depleted resource; we dump our wastes into water and it concentrates in the soil and wetlands downstream, further impacting the ecosystem. I have a close friend who is on the local Water Authority board. He has fought too much pumping from aquifers that causes intrusion of soil, salt water, and other contaminated wastes into the aquifer (nature abhors a vacuum). He recently applied for and received permission to provide water for our burgeoning area from a local river instead of causing damage to the local aquifer. Yet upstream his grant is receiving much contention - a large city 500 miles away from that river is running out of water and is willing to spend the billions of dollars to access it! The only people stopping them is the Corps of Engineers who regulate and control water resources. Potable water is becoming as valuable as silver or gold. Allowing more industry to pollute it or utilize it is becoming very expensive.
Mind you, I am not against industry, job growth, or business expansion - I simply require responsible management of resources.
You and your neighbors will have to fight your own fight; no one else can - or will. Many people cannot see the damage that can come from irresponsible management; they are blinded by "I'll get a better job!" and you can't really blame them. However, when they start catching deformed fish, or are advised to only eat three fish a month from a river or stream because of the concentration of pollutants in that stream - it is usually too late for any responsibility or blame.
Good luck.

[smitter]

I wouldn't eat anything that comes out of that Big Sioux River as it comes out of Sioux Falls as it is. Any of the lakes nearby either. We don't need no stinking refinery here... my 2 cents