Is This True Pine Ridge Indian Reservation Is The Poorest Place In America? (Rapid City: real estate, renting)

[DeadwoodJ]

I'm sorry to say, the Indians will never get the Black Hills back, the land is valuable to a couple hundred thousand people now and I"m sure more will come......The Lakota would in all honesty do better to accept the billions of dollars thats sitting in a trust for them. Think of what they could do with that money, say 150,000 Sioux and at least $47 billion dollars in the trust, (I know thats very low but can't seem to find a nearer number now). Right there is $313,333 before taxes. I'm sure the Sioux could do alot with that kind of money. I also understand their position in the fact that you cannot 'buy the land only use it' but I guess in my opinion, if someone wants to buy something of mine that I can't legally own either why not let them.

[DannyBanany]

Originally Posted by DeadwoodJ

I also understand their position in the fact that you cannot 'buy the land only use it' but I guess in my opinion, if someone wants to buy something of mine that I can't legally own either why not let them.

Pride and corruption.

[rjl78]

It was in either 1979 for 1981 that Surpreme court awarded a large monetary settlement to the various tribes 1876 maket value plus interest. To date the tribes have never accepted that money.

[Polycarp of John]

The treaty signed by the US govt guaranteed the Lakota the Black Hills forever. If the treaty had been honored there could be 200,000 Lakota living in the Black Hills. The gold from the Homestake Gold Mine could have been theirs. The feldspar that has been taken out could profit the Lakota. They would be remiss in accepting the govt's figure based on the 1876 value of the Hills. If the money being offered amounts to $313,000 per person, that won't even buy a large house, and most of the people there need large homes. They could buy a house with the $313,000, and all the money would be gone, and Pine Ridge would still have an 85% unemployment rate, so many wouldn't be able to afford the upkeep on their house, and then everything is back to the way it was. That's what usually happens with schemes to improve Pine Ridge.

The treaty didn't offer them the value of the Black Hills. It guaranteed the Black Hills to them forever. The govt could make a law that the current owners of property in the Black Hills could continue to use it until they die or choose to move. Then the land would be bought by the govt at the guaranteed current market rate. That way the govt could buy back the Black Hills that they sold to European settlers for homesteading. They could also set up a special government body to run the Black Hills as if it were a county or something. If the govt bought back the Black Hills when the current owners died, the Black Hills could be back in Lakota hands in a generation or two. The Philippines used a method sort of like this in a land reform effort. People should study how it was done and see if it provides good ideas for returning the Black Hills to the Lakota.

The Native Americans have been planning for this time ever since the civil rights movement started. They decided that they would wait until Native Americans could get justice in the courts, and if that day ever came, they would go after their treaty rights. Now they have control over most of the fishing in Washington State (Bolt decision), and the Black Hills is theirs.

[dpf]

What do you mean $313,000 wouldn't buy a home? Very few working people in SD live in a home that costs that much.

[Jammie]

Originally Posted by dpf

What do you mean $313,000 wouldn't buy a home? Very few working people in SD live in a home that costs that much.

That's a very good question.

Poly, there is so much that is debatable here, but as usual, it's like beating your head against a wall.

First, no one is complaining that the Sioux are taking food when it's given to them. It's actually not offered to them. They go to the welfare office and apply for food stamps and receive them. In essence, they are begging. It's wonderful that this free food allows them to buy something they need or want or catch up on bills. Too bad it takes money away from the rest of the taxpayers who have to pay more just so you can have a few extra bucks.

Secondly, why should the Sioux have the Hills BACK? They feared it and never entered it until the white man came along. They then followed and settled there so how does it even make it THEIR land? They chased the Arikara from the plains of the Dakotas so why aren't the Sioux now supporting the Arikara?

If the govt. did give the Sioux a lump sum of money, what happens when it's gone and it wouldn't take long? Do we, the taxpayers, continue paying for the free food, free fuel, houses that have been built and trashed and the valuables sold out of them? OR would that lump sum be the end of all the handouts? Many of the Sioux have spent their entire lives without one single job. Some have absolutely NO idea where money comes from. You proved that when you spoke of the food that was offered to you. The perception is that EVERYONE receives free food, free fuel, free clothing, free commodities, a free education,a free house, free medical and dental care, etc. Well, we don't ALL receive those things. So if we're going to add interest to the money the govt. foolishly promised the Sioux, can we then deduct for all the money that's been given to them throughout this time? Guess who'd owe who.

You feel the Sioux deserve the money from Homestake? Who discovered the gold? Did the Sioux figure out a way to mine it and market it? Who did the back breaking work in that mine?

Are you ever on the rez when truckloads of coats and mittens and backpacks and bicycles are brought there? Those things come from people like us who donate things. We take our own money that we earned and share it with the less fortunate. And all we ever get is a slap in the face. I think that personally, I'll keep my few dollars that I contribute every year and use it for ME. At least I know I won't trash an item in a month or two or sell it.

This has got to stop! Every few months we have another Indian/White man war here. Here are some suggestions~

No, it's not easy to pull yourself up by yourself. BUT who's asking you to? Any single Sioux is free to leave the rez. As long as they make it back to the tribe they are enrolled in, their medical and dental care is free. This frees them from insurance premiums and co-pays that the rest of us have.

Education is free. Can anyone else say they got their degree by investing no money? Stay on food stamps, get commodities, go back to the rez for medical and dental care, etc. You have an advantage that most of us don't have.

If you're not inclined to go to college, get a job. The medical and dental is still free for you. That is a HUGE part of the money that most of us have to pay out every year for ourselves and our families. You don't HAVE to stay on the rez because we all know there are no jobs there. MOVE like any one of us would have to do if our area had no employment to offer us. No, you won't get a free house outside the Rez so you may just have to pay rent like the rest of the world has to.

This is all do-able, but many chose to wallow in their own self pity and it gets old.

Thought patterns need to change. In Charles Mix Co., the Sioux were each given a quarter of very good ag land many years ago. They SOLD it for money to the white man. Now there is a lawsuit pending to get it back. It was GIVEN to your ancestors. THEY sold it, but now it's "rightfully ours". I just don't understand that line of thinking. Several years ago we sold our house. Do I now have the right to go back to the buyers and tell them it's rightfully mine~give it back????

Seriously, it's a lot of things to ponder and if the pity would stop, a lot of things might change.

[Future Trooper]

where i live in indiana $313,000 doesnt even cover the price for the land to put it on.

[Jammie]

Originally Posted by gdude

where i live in indiana $313,000 doesnt even cover the price for the land to put it on.

You should check out Realtor.com. I think you'd be surprised at what kind of house you can get here for that kind of money.

[Polycarp of John]

Originally Posted by Jammie

That's a very good question.

Poly, there is so much that is debatable here, but as usual, it's like beating your head against a wall.

First, no one is complaining that the Sioux are taking food when it's given to them. It's actually not offered to them. They go to the welfare office and apply for food stamps and receive them. In essence, they are begging. It's wonderful that this free food allows them to buy something they need or want or catch up on bills. Too bad it takes money away from the rest of the taxpayers who have to pay more just so you can have a few extra bucks.

Secondly, why should the Sioux have the Hills BACK? They feared it and never entered it until the white man came along. They then followed and settled there so how does it even make it THEIR land? They chased the Arikara from the plains of the Dakotas so why aren't the Sioux now supporting the Arikara?

If the govt. did give the Sioux a lump sum of money, what happens when it's gone and it wouldn't take long? Do we, the taxpayers, continue paying for the free food, free fuel, houses that have been built and trashed and the valuables sold out of them? OR would that lump sum be the end of all the handouts? Many of the Sioux have spent their entire lives without one single job. Some have absolutely NO idea where money comes from. You proved that when you spoke of the food that was offered to you. The perception is that EVERYONE receives free food, free fuel, free clothing, free commodities, a free education,a free house, free medical and dental care, etc. Well, we don't ALL receive those things. So if we're going to add interest to the money the govt. foolishly promised the Sioux, can we then deduct for all the money that's been given to them throughout this time? Guess who'd owe who.

You feel the Sioux deserve the money from Homestake? Who discovered the gold? Did the Sioux figure out a way to mine it and market it? Who did the back breaking work in that mine?

Are you ever on the rez when truckloads of coats and mittens and backpacks and bicycles are brought there? Those things come from people like us who donate things. We take our own money that we earned and share it with the less fortunate. And all we ever get is a slap in the face. I think that personally, I'll keep my few dollars that I contribute every year and use it for ME. At least I know I won't trash an item in a month or two or sell it.

This has got to stop! Every few months we have another Indian/White man war here. Here are some suggestions~

No, it's not easy to pull yourself up by yourself. BUT who's asking you to? Any single Sioux is free to leave the rez. As long as they make it back to the tribe they are enrolled in, their medical and dental care is free. This frees them from insurance premiums and co-pays that the rest of us have.

Education is free. Can anyone else say they got their degree by investing no money? Stay on food stamps, get commodities, go back to the rez for medical and dental care, etc. You have an advantage that most of us don't have.

If you're not inclined to go to college, get a job. The medical and dental is still free for you. That is a HUGE part of the money that most of us have to pay out every year for ourselves and our families. You don't HAVE to stay on the rez because we all know there are no jobs there. MOVE like any one of us would have to do if our area had no employment to offer us. No, you won't get a free house outside the Rez so you may just have to pay rent like the rest of the world has to.

This is all do-able, but many chose to wallow in their own self pity and it gets old.

Thought patterns need to change. In Charles Mix Co., the Sioux were each given a quarter of very good ag land many years ago. They SOLD it for money to the white man. Now there is a lawsuit pending to get it back. It was GIVEN to your ancestors. THEY sold it, but now it's "rightfully ours". I just don't understand that line of thinking. Several years ago we sold our house. Do I now have the right to go back to the buyers and tell them it's rightfully mine~give it back????

Seriously, it's a lot of things to ponder and if the pity would stop, a lot of things might change.

You're getting pretty personal here. It isn't appropriate. I haven't been offered any free food, I am not Native American, and I don't live anywhere near Pine Ridge. I don't get free medical and dental care. I do have two college degrees. But as I said, I lived in southwestern South Dakota for over 20 years, and I have seen the work of the churches in Pine Ridge. (The tribe in Pine Ridge is not the same as the tribe in Charles Mix. They even use different dialects.) You are way off the mark in your criticism of me.

My original comment, that one shouldn't offer free food and then criticize someone for taking it, was addressed to the church worker whose post I quoted, because that's what she was doing.

In addition to foodstamps the churches, and probably other charitable organizations in Pine Ridge, give people food boxes that are free. The same thing is available in most cities in the US. It's called a food bank. They were started in the 1970s. Seattle's was started because Boeing laid off thousands of people, including engineers, and they were all going to lose their homes in a time when unemployment was high all over the country. The food banks wanted to provide the Boeing people with enough food that they could use their unemployment compensation to pay their mortgages and keep their homes. The community came together on it, and it worked.

Any person who needs food or who needs to save food money to pay rent, mortgage, and utilities can go to a food bank and get free food. They don't have to apply for food stamps first. The only requirement is proof of address unless the person is homeless. The food is supplied by gleaner organizations that go into a potato, onion, carrot, etc field and glean for free what was not harvested, because it was misshapen, too small, too large, etc. They pack it and put it in warehouses where food banks can pick it up. Otherwise it would rot in the fields. The rest is from donations of non perishable food by the community and monetary donations from the community and businesses. Grocery stores contribute their out of date food items.

The people in Pine Ridge know exactly where money comes from. It comes from work and 85% of them can't get any.

I already posted about the costs involved in getting off the reservation. It's similar to the costs involved in moving anywhere plus discrimination. Not too many people on welfare in Pine Ridge can raise the money, especially if they have children that their relatives help babysit. As mica said, it's very hard.

[Jammie]

It really isn't fair to offer people free food and then criticize them for taking it. It also isn't fair to give them a gift and then criticize how they choose to use it. If you're going to give, give with no strings attached.

If someone gave me free food, I'd be very stupid not to accept it. It would save me a lot of money. I could save that money for something I wanted, like a tv set or some decent clothes or a microwave oven or get my car fixed or catch up on some bills. It would be stupid to spend money on more food for the children when there is adequate food in the food boxes. Native Americans are not stupid. Neither are most other people.//Unquote

The above statement is yours from another thread. Yes, it would be nice to never have to buy any of our own food and use it for other things. You have a valid point with the food banks, however~most of the Sioux DO apply for food stamps and get them.

So instead of the constant going back and forth, what do you offer for solutions?

If money was provided for relocation and employment secured, would that be sufficient? You know the thing about teaching a man to fish instead of just providing him with the fish? Would that be the solution? What percentage would show up for employment?

You know that the fact that some would have to move a few miles away from their families and couldn't get free childcare really doesn't hold water, don't you? Many people have to pay for someone to watch their children while they're working and they may have to learn to do the same.

If the younger and more able Sioux were given help to relocate, would that help? Maybe something like rent vouchers for the first 6 months, be able to keep their free fuel the first year, etc? Would that make the difference? Would any be interested in becoming self supporting?