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Thread summary:

South Dakota: lawyer, college, Sarah Palin, Joe Biden, harvard.

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Unread 10-03-2008, 11:58 PM
 
Location: South Dakota
1,961 posts, read 4,069,734 times
Reputation: 906
Danny, you brought up some good points.

I thought that the debate were a toss up more or less in the VP race. I think the Palin held her own, but Biden also did fine too. Both were civil, for the most part, to each other and acknowledged each other, unlike the presidential debate when McCain came off as a grumpy old fart that did not acknowledge Obama's existence. Biden had more substance and did better with answering the moderator's questions with greater focus than Palin. Palin was stuck on her hockey mom and Alaska propoganda. Biden was a little too defensive and Palin was a little too cheesy. Biden's story about him trying to raise his kids on his own and his challenges was moving. I have heard positive things about that from several people and I honestly think it is positive also. Overall, I think that Biden did better than Palin.

The debate reinforces my support for Obama-Biden.
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Unread 10-04-2008, 09:19 AM
 
Location: South Dakota
731 posts, read 2,536,909 times
Reputation: 628
Quote:
Originally Posted by imbobbbb View Post
QUOTE=windtimber;5541867]"Joe Six Pack" - yes, as a hard working middle income male who makes a concerted effort to be informed on national and international issues, understand economic trends, and generally be an educated and participating citizen, I am offended. It strikes me that we've hit a new low - celebrating ignorance rather than ability.
well maybe the term 'joe six pack' doesn't apply to you....or maybe you feel it does and just desire to be offended. It seems to me that most of the people who take offense at trivial political slogans were already on 'the otherside' anyway......and that observation applies to most of the excessively 'thin skinned' in both parties[/quote]

Hey, imbobbbb -

"The otherside?"

I've been a registered Republican since the day I turned 18 - over 36 years ago. I actively campaigned for Bush I and Bob Dole. I had serious reservations over Bush II - strongly suspecting he was a mere pawn in the hands of Cheney and Rove.

After 9/11 I thought, similar to Truman, that Bush II had risen above himself and would become a true statesman. Then I watched the Executive power grab and the erosion of our civil rights at the hands of do nothing, rubber stamp Congress consisting of a majority of my own party! My initial reservations came back in spades - and my party, long guardians of individual responsibility and champions of the government leaving us alone, did nothing but support corporate cronyism, a big-business benefiting war based on flawed intelligence and, apparently, outright fabrications.

Four years later the Democrats unbelievably fielded an even worse, weak-kneed candidate. Chosing the lesser of two evils I voted again for Bush II. And it got WORSE. Arrogance, unaccountability, and continuing accusations that if you dare question the political wisdom of the prevailing executive and his party you're an unpatriotic traitor who doesn't support the troops. Questions, debate, and executive responsibility were trumped by accusations of disloyalty.

There are a lot of intelligent, thinking Republicans who are sick and tired of the arrogance of our party and their mere "lip service" to traditional Republican philosophy. Dare raise a question and you're treated like a pariah - a clear and present out fall from the insidious cancer of Karl Rove and his ilk and the lack of intellectual ability and intellectual accountability on the part of our current Executive. The same misguided politics continues in today's campaign - disagree on a principled basis with the current candidate and he slides into the bully mode of "if you're not with me, you're against us all."

I am ashamed of the direction my party has taken over the last 8 years. It has imperiled the separation of powers. It has facilitated clear and present misrepresentations to the American public. It has actively undertaken the greatest erosion of our fundamental civil rights in the history of our country. It has abandoned the hard won oversight of big business developed by Republicans at the turn of the 20th Century and fallen into league with huge corporations. I would hope my party is large enough, and progressive enough, to accept, as it has for decades past, divergent views based on fundamental principals of Republicanism. Unfortunately, if you raise a voice of disapproval you are cast as a pariah - and an un-American pariah at that.

The Democrats do not represent my political philosophy. But neither does the current administration nor does my party's current nominee. The 2008 Republican ticket is intent on simply saying anything it thinks we want to hear in order to win the election and continue the executive power grab started after 9/11. The "sound bite" VP candidate is nothing more than a 21st Century incarnation of Marie Antoinette [The peasants have no bread? Then let them eat cake.]. She is so ill informed and far removed from the real issues of the day that she can not intelligently discuss events, but can only tell us to drink our beer, shut up, and sit on the couch.

Am I on "the otherside?" If being on "the otherside" means making an intelligent choice based on which candidate presents the most cogent, consistent policies and demonstrates an ability to to make well considered decisions in uncontrolled situations, then perhaps I am on the other side.

Being a thinking, concerned citizen and voter means departing from the "party line" when the best interests of our nation require independent judgment. If I'm reading national trends correctly, I believe there are going to be rafts of "Republicans for Obama" November 4. We've been quiet so far - knowing that public expression of our carefully considered decision will only be pilloried by "Republican party right or wrong" leaders.

No, I'm not on "the otherside." I'm on the side of the the Constitution of the United State of America and a great, successful, and independent Republic.
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Unread 10-04-2008, 09:09 PM
 
Location: South Dakota
1,961 posts, read 4,069,734 times
Reputation: 906
Prior to the current administration, I have always thought of myself being an independent and centrist. I still think that I am. I can admit that my political views have slowly shifted to the left in the past five years with lot of crap going on in on the top. Yes, Bush has his good points, but many of his decisions and policies I simply do not agree with. It is more so of the mismanagement of government, war (when Donald (duck) Rumsfeld called the shots to the Iraq war), and responses to disasters (Katrina, drought in our own state in '02-for heavens sake). Maybe we need a breath of fresh air and Obama and Biden resemble that more so than the standoffish politics (Karl Rove-like) of the current administration that the McCain-Palin ticket will continue.
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Unread 10-04-2008, 09:40 PM
 
1,999 posts, read 2,054,659 times
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well windtimber ive been a republican for 28 years and i dont disagree with most of your post.Neither party represents me very well,i think mcain will continue the slow downhill slide of the country and obama will slide us downhill further and faster.If you think obama will do a better job then you 'should' vote for him.People who put their party ahead of their country are fools.I think that mccain will do better then bush 2,[who i never liked much from the get-go],or obama but i could be wrong and if obama wins i hope i am wrong.I have low expectations for mccain and even lower ones for obama but we wont know anything untill several years,at least,have past to know how either will do.
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Unread 10-05-2008, 06:26 PM
 
Location: Yorba Linda CA
8 posts, read 8,703 times
Reputation: 20
As a former Democrat who converted in the last 15 years to Republican I have been pretty disgusted with the direction of the party too. It has become a sad choice of who is the least odorous of the candidates in the last three elections. My personal opinion is that the current nominee was not the right choice. That said, I wonder what the erosion of our civil rights are - specific examples please? And by that I mean how has it impacted you personally. The only problem I have is with some of the rediculous air travel restrictions. As far as wire tapping, etc., I only do legitimate business with several overseas colleagues, and I am afraid anyone listening in will be pretty bored. Same goes for my domestic communications. While the Democrats wondered after 9-11 what we had done wrong to deserve the attack, at least the Republicans said that it was pure evil and must be fought.

I was born and raised in SD (returning ASAP), currently live in Southern California and spent several years in Northern California. If you want a big dose of Nancy Pelosi, and the other ultra-liberals then go ahead and support Barak Obama. I have lived for 35 years in this failed liberal experiment called California, and I for one have had enough. The basic issue for me is whether the government is the answer, or the problem? Barak Obama a brilliant community orgarnizer? Have you ever had the pleasure of seeing what a community organizer is? Pick up a copy of the San Francisco Chronicle sometime and thumb through the want ads. You will see several listings for protesters, the better to agitate for "progress". Turn on the news here and see government dollars wasted trying to figure out how to get protesters off of private property so the owner can exersize their own rights instead of that of the "people". Well, this has been a rather unorganized rant, but I have seen so much here that appears to be well-intended that I just had to respond. I have spent too many years dealing with the well intended messes of liberals here. Please tell me thats not what I will get when I move back home.
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Unread 10-06-2008, 05:23 AM
 
Location: So. Dak.
13,496 posts, read 23,447,529 times
Reputation: 14793
Randolfo, it's sad to hear what southern Cali has become since it used to be a place that many of us dreamed of moving to back in the 60s.

It's good to hear that you're moving back home and I hope all goes well for you. What area will you be returning to?

As far as coming home to liberals~I don't think you'll find that there are many true liberals here~anyway not as you would be picturing them to be. Most of us are pretty middle of the road and my prediction is that So. Dak. will end up with the majority voting Repub. in this next election just like always. It just seems like many of us who are Conservatives are just taking a good look at what's been going on in our country and see the need for something different.
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Unread 10-06-2008, 05:38 AM
 
393 posts, read 671,071 times
Reputation: 279
Even though I personally don't like Obama, the "hockey mom" and "Joe Sixpack" references were less than dignified. I have a real problem with the average American (whether or not it actually applies) being portrayed as such a low-brow character. Now I do realize that Palin is actually including herself in that group as a self proclaimed "hockey mom" and wishing to identify with what she perceives as the average American. I just don't completely buy that.

To me, it feels like we're being told "you're just a dumb bunch of "hockey moms" and beer drinking laborers, we know what's best for you so let us take care of your interests". It is very disturbing to me.
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Unread 10-06-2008, 06:33 AM
 
Location: Sioux Falls
230 posts, read 363,015 times
Reputation: 354
Something just doesn't sit right with me when I see politicians trying to relate to the "Average Joe" in America. I typically view politicians as shady lawyer types (sorry if that offends) who are generally out of touch with the "Average Joe".

How can anyone who makes as much as someone like McCain does (or should I say his wife) possibly understand what it is like to search for change in the cushions of your couch in order to hit up the customer appreciation day at Little Ceasar's $2.99 special ??

It's not just McCain, I was just using him as an example, but it applies to others as well. So when I see them trying to relate like that, I can't help but get the feeling that I'm expected to take a big whiff of a pile of steaming crap and tell you how much it smells like roses...

Oh yeah, I like beer...
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Unread 10-06-2008, 01:31 PM
 
Location: Yorba Linda CA
8 posts, read 8,703 times
Reputation: 20
To reply to Jammie, we are looking at Rapid City and Spearfish. Rapid appears to be the choice since I will need to head to the airport 12-20 times a year. That of course assumes my house here in the formerly Golden state doesn't lose all of its value . Glad to hear SD won't have too much of a flavor of California. There are a lot of good people here in California, but I am afraid that the emphasis on diversity has overshadowed the power of those thoughts and ideals that we almost all share. We have lost sight of personal responsibility as well as a concern for the common good. Our politicians have instead replaced them with partisianship and narrowly focused special interests.

I certainly share the concerns that many have posted with the current political pandering. I believe I hear many expressing disdain for politics as usual, yet that is what they continue to feed us. I find it hard to belive that two people who are part of the US congress with the lowest approval rating in history can point to each other as "out of touch". I think my Dad used to say that was "the pot calling the kettle black". In the meantime, I want to enjoy a less hectic, less material, more meaningful life. I believe I will find that back home in SD!
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Unread 10-06-2008, 01:48 PM
 
393 posts, read 671,071 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randolfo View Post
In the meantime, I want to enjoy a less hectic, less material, more meaningful life. I believe I will find that back home in SD!
Yep, that about sums it all up for me!
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