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There have been several news articles out and it's been on CNN. If you do a search, you're bound to bump into a few of them. The average Toyota worker makes about 24 per hour WITH benies. The average worker for the big three makes about 70 per hour also with benies.
Are you taking into account vacation time, holiday time, etc. when you're figuring your total hourly benies?
Something else that I'd question~do you qualify for free health insurance premiums after your retirement? They are still offering pensions at retirement, is that correct?
The only answer I can give you is that, as you know, we have a CitiBank in Sioux Falls and no auto factories in our entire state. I couldn't tell you the exact wage of the average CitiBank worker, but benies included, I doubt it comes near 20 per hour. Of course, the higher ups probably make more then they're worth, but not the average worker. SO, my guess is that no one wants to see someone making 10 or 12 per hour having to make concessions because it's not much more then a living wage. You couldn't cut their wages in half because that'd put them below minimum wage. The majority of them don't make half of your wage.
Jammie, the large corporations in Rapid City probably start their employees somewhere around $8-10 per hour. Some large corps in Rapid City are GE, Conseco, Green Tree, NEWCorp, PepsiCo, Coca Cola, and Black Hills Corp. I don't think benefits are much either. Theses auto makers have it pretty good.
The ones in Sioux Falls such as the card places and manufacturing places often start in the $10-$12 range. This may be a good wage in a small town with housing that is fraction of what it is in the 25-mile radius of Sioux Falls, but does not get too terribly far in Sioux Falls.
I agree, Danny, that the automaker workers have it good in comparison with most other people, especially those in blue-collar work.
Another bailout huh? A lot of great comments here. My family roots are from Michigan, and we have a few relatives still there -- who work for the Big Three. I am saddened by the demise of this once great industry but I don't blame management, I blame the UAW.These salaries are crazy!
My cousin makes $52/per hour at Ford plus benefits -- that 95% of us could only dream about.My family and I try to stay off the topic because it usually results in arguments...but they're (UAW) flat out wrong and unrealistic.Research the current Jobs Bank program for more outrage.
As far as the leadership,they could've done a better job... but they've been handcuffed by the unions. Most of the money goes into the employees (UAW) and hardly anything goes into the finished product. Japan,on the other hand puts more into the finished product than the employees, but even the "American-made" Japanese cars are seeing reliability/quality issues these days too. If you want an import, buy one that was built in Japan,Germany,or Sweden --not in the U.S.
I will admit that GM in particular, has done some "great work" in the past few years with the Saturn Outlook (more cargo room than the Highlander and Pilot and a better mpg), GMC Acadia, Buick Enclave (even better than Lexus RX 400),Saturn Aura, Chevrolet Malibu, Cadillac Escalade, and now with the Chevrolet Tahoe and Escalade 'hybrids'. All of these models "smoke" their Japanese rivals in value, size, warranty (100K), and fuel economy. The Tahoe and Escalade hybrids get 20-22 mpg "city" vs the Toyota Sequoia's 12 mpg. Go look at these models if you haven't seen them yet.
Many say that the big Three has been making too many trucks,vans, and SUVS...who else is going to make them? America invented the truck and the SUV. There has been a demand for them ever since, even with high gas prices.These environmentalist "nut jobs" would tell a Wyoming rancher who has 10,000 livestock, 100 acres, muddy roads (in the mountains with snow)--that he should be driving a Prius? Or the family with 5 kids to drive a Chevy Aveo? Crazy, it's supply and demand.What about safety? I wouldn't want to be hit in a Smart Car for 2, or an Aveo.Would you?
Europeans don't commute 100 miles to work a day, like millions of Americans, or have 4 kids; the average European has 1 kid and lives in town. They are experiencing "negative" growth rates with the natives over there. Big difference in lifestyle! The huge benefit that Europeans do have, is excellent mass transportation, but so does the U.S. in the big cities; however,a lot of Americans like me, don't want to live in big dangerous cities any more. Our big cities are a lot more violent than Europe's big cities but that's another issue -- irrelevant here.
There are many factors to consider, and everybody raises good points.
Overall, do I support a bailout? No.No.No
I think bankruptcy and mergers are the best deal to be more leaner and efficient. We don't need three car manufacturers asking for money when 1 or 2 are going to fail anyway. Get rid of some of these union contracts too. On the other hand, with these high labor costs and oppressive corporate income taxes, some of these companies will have to go overseas to survive. That's not their fault -- blame the "higher taxes" and "union mob mentality" crowds. America can be the best again, but a major change in management is needed and that includes congress too. I agree...America can do better!
I would still buy a Tahoe Hybrid tomorrow...if I could afford one.
P.S. That's nonsense that the cars won't be covered by a warranty if they go into Chapter 11 .Most of that money is already set aside (unless the UAW stole that too). More scare tactics.
Last edited by Kwame Y; 12-08-2008 at 12:43 AM..
Reason: typos
please somebody break down this $70+ hr figure!! because my paycheck shows $28. so please elaborate and show me where I get $70+ hr., that means I should be earning-hmmm $140k a year. I don't know why people are down on others earning a decent wage.
I was watching the congressional or senatorial hearing on this last week and The one guy that was speaking (a senator or congressman I don't remember which) confirmed that the 70+ an hour wage was Rumours that had been spread around and that indeed the UAW workers were making around the 25-30 dollar an hour range. This was coming straight from the government mouths (yeah I know, they never lie either right lol) and not the UAW or BIG 3 representatives.
The media is folding in the costs of the retiree legacy obligations into your American automaker wages. GM workers make about $28 per hour with benefits added, putting them at about $48 per hour.
Foreign workers in American figures to about $44 per hour (wages and benefits).
We can all thank the media for reporting and repeating inaccurate information that continues to paint the American autoworkers as greedy, overpaid employees. It is simply not true.
I can't speak for the others here and their posts.
However, that's what you earn...but many UAW members make a lot more. I know what my cousin earns ($52/HR). Those "confirmed estimates" include all benefits (pensions,free healthcare,etc) and taxes paid by the employer.That's an average, that means some earn less but the total benefit package for all UAW members is $70/per hour.
I agree with you that some earn much less, but there are some UAW tenured members that earn well over that estimate as well. It's the law of averages. Nationwide, the average cost of labor is $28/per hour including benefits and taxes. There is a significant difference between what UAW members vs non-UAW earn.The retirement and healthcare benefits that UAW members get are outrageously good. Sorry, but 95% of America doesn't have benefits that good. No offense.
With my post, I was blaming UAW leadership for not wanting to make any "essential" concessions to avert disaster and total unemployment for all. I agree that everybody should make a good wage, but it is "not a constitutional right"...for anybody.However, a good paying job -- is better than no job at all. The American people don't owe the Big 3 or the unions anything.For many Americans earning $8/per hour, they can't sympathize with UAW workers salaries, and don't want their tax dollars going to help unions and big companies.I agree that either way the bailout issue goes -- there will be Hell to pay. It's a catch 22, nobody wins.
You raise some good points, and I hope that you can continue making good cars in the future. I will admit that American cars are better than ever...and in some cases better than many imports. Take care.
52 per hour????? Now you add in vacation time, sick time, health insurance premiums, optical insurance, dental insurance, retirement funds, etc.~that's definitely some pretty good $$ so it's no wonder their companies are going broke.
Higel, figure it out. Take your pay stub and add in the insurance premiums they pay for you. Add in the amount of pension they put aside for you. Add in your vacation time, etc. Just because your wage is "ONLY" 28 per hour doesn't show a true picture. It's obvious that there are many who's wage is much higher. Figure in how much they will pay for your health insurance premiums after you retire.
No one is upset about someone making a good living, but your company is going bankrupt because of the good wages received. There's also a difference between someone being paid a fair wage and people who are hiding behind the Unions saying they don't want to lose a thing. Not sure where this sense of entitlement plays into this and it appears that the employees of the car companies have that syndrome. Why should the rest of us who are making 10 or 12 an hour come along and have to bail your companies out while you keep making 4 or 5 times the wages we're making. Can you see what's wrong with this picture? Your company is going broke. Unless the employees are willing to take a lesser wage and not expect free health insurance for life and make some concessions, no amount of handouts are going to be enough and it just won't stop. Do they actually enjoy piggy backing on the taxpayers making a fraction of their wage? What a shame!!!
Oh well, it looks like the govt. is going to dole out another chunk of money which they keep saying will not affect the taxpayers. Not sure where the funds actually come from if it isn't from the people of our nation. Hopefully they'll have enough restrictions and oversee things well enough that the money won't be squandered just like the other bailout companies have been squandering it. The last I read was that 400,000 of the already doled out 250 billion was used to help people in foreclosure. Kinda makes you wonder where the rest has gone, doesn't it? Where are all the restrictions and oversight that was going into this handout? Where was the govt. when these people have their little getaway that cost a massive fortune?
It'd be interesting to see how those same employees who "deserve" those type of wages make out in the world if their company fails and they have no job because their union isn't willing to make concessions. Will those same employees be able to make it at a job that pays 10 per hour? Do they even have an idea how difficult it can be to find a job with good benefits? Just a lot of greed going around and until the govt. says, "NO", it won't stop. AND whatever happened to the money they have already received to make cars more fuel efficient? Since the American made cars haven't become more efficient, where has all that money gone?
I know many people in michigan that work for the state or city employees, police, firefighters, government employees and they have better health care and pensions than I. The local sheriff in eaton county just retired with a hefty $5400/month pension. GM pension is $55 x years of service, $55 x 30 yrs= $1650..... not that good,..... really!
check out this link and see if a gm GM guy making 55k a years is way out of line.
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Or the family with 5 kids to drive a Chevy Aveo? Crazy, it's supply and demand.What about safety? I wouldn't want to be hit in a Smart Car for 2, or an Aveo.Would you?
GM wages via the media
Take care.
