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Old 12-17-2008, 11:20 PM
 
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
3,940 posts, read 14,173,953 times
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Homesteader, it sounds like you're a good guy to have around in a sticky situation. Alcohol can lead to self-destruction very easily and throw in an absence of work in a rural setting and you've got a recipe for depression -which leads to more alcoholism. Have you considered moving your friend to a city or town that needs work?

On a side note, it's really funny how everybody wants something that is made in America because they think it contributes to their neighbor. You look at products that are made in America and they all have the same thing in common -they're crappy and EXPENSIVE. That's because the workers that make them feel no obligation to do a good job and they get paid $20+ per hour to make it.

Now look at your computer monitor. It was made by a Mexican woman in Ciudad Juarez who makes $5 per day and has 3 kids to feed. She does a good job making it too because if she doesn't, her kids don't eat and she's replaced by some other Mexican woman that was transported into the factory to take her spot.

Not to mention, these Mexican women are the victims of rape and murder in a system without justice.

Female homicides in Ciudad Juárez - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 12-18-2008, 05:40 AM
 
393 posts, read 1,028,906 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SDHomesteader View Post
I'm really not trying to be mean, but, Consider yourself lucky to have a job and working.
OK OK OK, Look I'm not sitting here feeling sorry for myself and yes, there are lots and lots and lots of people in the world that have it worse off than me, you, or even your friend. That was not the point of my post at all. I'm not trying to be mean, but truthfully, your post is not even remotely related to my point. An alcoholic, with a tragic past, destroying his life can happen any time at all. It has nothing to do with the job market, the economy, or the way employers treat their employees. That's like telling someone they are foolish for not liking a certain kind of food and qualifying the statement with "people are starving in Africa"... I applaud your efforts to help your friend. You are a rare person and I wish you the best of luck.

The point is simple, while I was standing there with the repair crews, one of the superintendents asked if I was staying all night with them. he seemed nervous & concerned that I was just there to watch them too closely. I said "I'm here because I wouldn't ask you do to something I'm not willing to do myself, if you have to stay late to fix this, I'll stay too". I helped out where I could, directed traffic when large equipment was unloaded and stood there for 10 hours while the pipe was repaired. The guy seemed to appreciate it. My boss did not.

All I'm saying is, be careful going too far saying "Well I'm lucky to be working" or eventually we'll all be working for $10 a day like many other places in the world. I appreciate my job, I'm happy I can pay my bills and I take pride in doing a good job. All I ask for in return is a little acknowledgement now and then, especially when I go above and beyond. I thanked every one of the guys that stayed that night as we all left together.

On the other side of that, one of my bosses might have been golfing or something else while this was playing out...

Last edited by blackhillsdreams; 12-18-2008 at 06:12 AM..
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Old 12-18-2008, 05:58 AM
 
393 posts, read 1,028,906 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyBanany View Post
On a side note, it's really funny how everybody wants something that is made in America because they think it contributes to their neighbor. You look at products that are made in America and they all have the same thing in common -they're crappy and EXPENSIVE. That's because the workers that make them feel no obligation to do a good job and they get paid $20+ per hour to make it.

Now look at your computer monitor. It was made by a Mexican woman in Ciudad Juarez who makes $5 per day and has 3 kids to feed. She does a good job making it too because if she doesn't, her kids don't eat and she's replaced by some other Mexican woman that was transported into the factory to take her spot.

Not to mention, these Mexican women are the victims of rape and murder in a system without justice.

Female homicides in Ciudad Juárez - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Danny, This is my point.

First of all, there are NOT a lot of $20 an hour jobs out there for production work, in fact there are next to NONE. I bet the average wage in SD for something like that is maybe $8 an hour.

Second, when the public collectively says "Well, at least I have a job so this treatment is OK", things are headed in exactly the same direction as they are in Juarez... It won't happen overnight, but where will we be in 5 or 10 years? I'm willing to bet a lot of factory jobs here in the U.S. if there even are any will bear a close resemblance to those in Juarez.

Situations rarely go from good to bad in a large jump. There is always a process, little steps in a certain direction add up and before you know it, you are down a path you can't go back on. I AM happy to be working but I don't have to like the fact that I'm working more hours than I have in the past 15 years for less money. It's not my fault, it's the state of the economy. My concern is the potential for this to become a trend. I don't want to be making even less 5 years from now for even more hours.

The gap between the "have's" and "have not's" is widening and there is a big fence in the middle. I don't mean that in a materialistic sense. I mean it in a killing yourself to make a simple living sense. We all have very little control over which side of that fence we are on. I'm not on the "have" side of the fence in a lot of respects.

I don't really care about material things any more, I'm leary of killing myself just to get by and cheerfully say "Well, at least I'm working, so it's ok"...
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Old 12-18-2008, 09:49 AM
 
415 posts, read 931,199 times
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Ok I'm a bit confused, are you salary or hourly wages. If your salary then I can understand working more hours for less pay but if your hourly, you should be getting overtime yes??

I beg to differ about alcoholism not being related to the job market. If theres no jobs, wouldn't just drive someone deeper into depression and then call upon the bottle to make themselves feel better. Alcoholism can effect people in sooo many diffferent ways. But do they ever raise the taxes on that to help prevent people from abusing. Nope can't do that because 90% of the politicians are probably alcoholics too and not smokers LOL. Lack of a Job Market can creat havoc on people, so yeah, in my opinion I think lack of a job market could drive someone to alcoholism, or worse yet, drug abuse or dependency. Another thing that was brought up to me last night after I got on the computer and was talking to Robin, He still has all his wifes pain meds and such in the house. Not sure if he is taking them but its another possibility.

The biggest issue I see with not getting thank you's at work or what have ya is that the mentality of the employer now is that Your here for a paycheck, not praise. I don't agree with it and when I was in my supervisory position in the army I was just the opposite. I was like you, would stay if they had to stay, would get my fingernails dirty just as they did. Did I have to, No, Did I want to, Yes in a way. I felt as you do, if they have to work late, so should I, after all, I was the one that asked them to stay late.

I'm hoping I can get this guys life turned around. I may not be able to, I may be able to. i just don't know whats gonna drive this guy to get off his keister and get it done. no one can bid lower than 0% on the interest and I'm prepared to do that to keep some of the guys up here that "Don't Like him" from buying the place out from under him and screwing him. I used to drink so I know how bad it can get sometimes.

Like I said before I wasn't trying to be mean or anything, just want us to remember and realize that yes, we should be thankful for what jobs we have, and yes your right also, Don't let them take advantage of you either. Its alot easier than you think it could be. Stand Together, if things come to it. Whats an employer gonna do, fire everyone and loose that profit they'd be making while looking to hire all new people?? Only a stupid employer would do that. At least you'd think that anyway lol.

I do like your analogy of the not liking a food versus a starving person though, I am sooo guilty of that with all the stuff I won't eat but I sure know a starving person would.
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Old 12-18-2008, 10:35 AM
 
393 posts, read 1,028,906 times
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Salary...
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Old 12-18-2008, 11:15 AM
 
Location: So. Dak.
13,495 posts, read 36,098,659 times
Reputation: 15193
Homesteader, you're definitely a good friend to have and there should be more people like you in the world. Have you considered urging your friend into going to treatment or AA? It sounds like he's having an awful time since his wife passed on and I can imagine that depression could set in, especially with so many losses. But he can't use that as an excuse to bury himself in the bottle and it's better if he understands that. Alcoholism is a disease, pure and simple and the sooner he accepts that, the better his life will be.

OK, kinda back on the original subject. I had the radio on (Kool 98 of course) and heard an ABC news break. The government is now scrambling to get $$ to them. The automakers are now saying they will shut down their plants for one month and not produce a single American made auto. SO, what's wrong with that? Are they just pushing and threatening because they want the $$$? Since they're unionized, won't everyone still get paid? Do you think the higher-ups will deduct a month from their horrendous wages and bonuses?

I wish they'd have gone into more detail cause I really don't know the answers to the questions and that's why I'm asking. One thing that I do know is that many of their expenses won't stop. They'll still be taxed on their buildings Of course, being up north they'll need to keep a certain amount of heat in them. Property insurance will continue.

SO, if wages keep going, along with all the benies, they still need to maintain their buildings, etc. what's the point? Is it to send a message that either you give us the $$ or we'll get even with you? Seriously, what do you guys think is going on?
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Old 12-18-2008, 11:29 AM
 
393 posts, read 1,028,906 times
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Corporate blackmail...
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Old 12-18-2008, 12:07 PM
 
Location: So. Dak.
13,495 posts, read 36,098,659 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackhillsdreams View Post
Corporate blackmail...
You know, that's exactly what I was wondering. But since I still haven't heard all the facts, I wasn't sure.

Kinda off topic here (Imagine that), but what's up with the previous bailout? You know the 700 billion? CNN has been running news stories of how people are having their interest rates going from 9% up to 15% and 16% and similar increases depending on where you were to begin with. They said CitiBank is one of the number one culprits for this and they got a huge chunk of the bailout so are they doing a sort of a double dip type thing now?

I realize that all the $$ hasn't been distributed yet~the last I heard was 250, but what in the world is going on with this? I wasn't for the bailout in the first place, but after it was passed I was hoping it'd help out the Average Joe. Obviously I was dreaming again.
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Old 12-18-2008, 03:31 PM
 
415 posts, read 931,199 times
Reputation: 727
Ok so they shut down for a month, who the hell cares, there are tons and tons of Cars sitting on the Showroom floors, not like they are in short supply to begin with. Hersruds in Sturgis has got more than 100 vehicles on the lot. Big Deal if they close down for a month. I was dead set against this bailout and any other bailout to begin with like you Jammie. The ONLY ones getting any of that money on the bailout is the higher ups, I don't give a damn what anyone says as far as otherwise. If they say otherwise then they are DAMN LIARS Period. NONE of this money is going where it needs to go.
The economy is gonna go down like a boat with no paddles and a Waterfall at the end and who will we have to blame. Congress, Senate, AIG, CITI, Big 3, and anyone else receiving money from these bailouts. And what the hell happened to voting on something THIS DAMN BIG. Let the people be heard, let us VOTE on this junk. Just sickens me that these companies are getting bailed out yet mom and pop down the street struggling to keep their grocery store, gas station or what have ya opened are SOL. Damn these politicians are pissing me off and running this country deeper and deeper in debt every damn day (and part of it is the salaries these jerk offs get). And if anyone says its not the politicians fault is a damn liar too. They are the ones approving this crap and not setting ANY KIND of ground rules for it. And whats even sadder is the We the american people sit here and take it. We don't demand any kind of accountability of our politicians whatsoever. Hold these jerks responsible, and maybe just maybe they might wise up, but I seriously doubt it. They know ever damn loophole to get around just about ever law on the books and many feel the laws don't apply to them in the first place. We just need to clean house and get rid of all of them and start over from scratch with REAL AMERICAN people in them positions and not GREEDY, SELF CENTERED, LYING, Full of Doodoo politicians.
Sorry bout that but damnit these politicians are damn near getting away with murder and we sit here and don't hold them accountable for Nothing.

Found out today, the guy I plan to try and help out was at the bar again last night buying more bottles. Me and Robin (the other friend trying to help) just can't figure out where he's getting the money for it. Unless he's selling stuff out of his house, he has no money. He could also have it stashed somewhere but damn you would think he would be smart enough to pay the bills first. AA is out of the question, none up here and with his money situation, He has no gas to go to Belle or Spearfish to do it. And I certainly don't have the means to run him there either. Moving him to town?? That would probably cost more than you'd know, First and last months rent(and rent has skyrocketed in belle for some reason) utility deposits. He has tried to sell his house, its all paid for, one of the reasons I hate to see him loose it over taxes and such, and he wants or has mentioned moving back to Washington state. With what he did last night and me and robin visiting with him on monday i think it was, it seems he just doesnt' want the help. If I could afford to buy his house I would, but until the land is paid off in 4 years I just don't have the free cash to do that with. I'll keep punching through the options but I'm just not sure it will work and we may end up with his house cuz he just don't care.
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Old 12-18-2008, 05:25 PM
 
393 posts, read 1,028,906 times
Reputation: 298
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jammie View Post
You know, that's exactly what I was wondering. But since I still haven't heard all the facts, I wasn't sure.

Kinda off topic here (Imagine that), but what's up with the previous bailout? You know the 700 billion? CNN has been running news stories of how people are having their interest rates going from 9% up to 15% and 16% and similar increases depending on where you were to begin with. They said CitiBank is one of the number one culprits for this and they got a huge chunk of the bailout so are they doing a sort of a double dip type thing now?

I realize that all the $$ hasn't been distributed yet~the last I heard was 250, but what in the world is going on with this? I wasn't for the bailout in the first place, but after it was passed I was hoping it'd help out the Average Joe. Obviously I was dreaming again.
Yep, Since I had to short sell my house, almost all of my credit cards have lowered my limits to my balances (I don't care, I don't use them anyway) and some have doubled my minimum payments. SO FAR, the rates have stayed the same because other than the house issue, I've NEVER missed a payment or even been late on ANYTHING.

I don't remember who said it, but I think it was Jefferson who said "Any government that is strong enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have" As for helping out the little people or average Joe's, I don't think that was ever the plan at all. I think big government and big business would love to see us all struggling, barely getting by, mentally defeated. We'd be easier to control that way...
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