Big 3 Beggars and Reality... (Gregory, Clark: sale, rent, health insurance)

[blackhillsdreams]

I received this in an email today. I don't know if these were really written by Troy Clarke and Gregory Knox, BUT I have to say I agree completely with what Mr. Knox allegedly has to say. To me, it seems to sum up the sort of responsible values I think South Dakotans seem to operate under from what I've learned here.


Abridged letter from Troy Clarke, President of General Motors - followed by a response from Gregory Knox, President of Knox Machinery, a manufacturer of precision machine tools which supplies the auto industry.
Dear Employee, 
Next week, Congress and the current Administration will determine whether to provide immediate support to the domestic auto industry to help it through one of the most difficult economic times in our nation's history. Your elected officials must hear from all of us now on why this support is critical to our continuing the progress we began prior to the global financial crisis......................As an employee, you have a lot at stake and continue to be one of our most effective and passionate voices. I know GM can count on you to have your voice heard. 
Thank you for your urgent action and ongoing support. 
Troy Clarke
President
General Motors North America 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From Gregory Knox, 
 In response to your request to call legislators and ask for a bailout for the United States automakers please consider the following, and please also pass this onto Troy Clark, the president of General Motors North America for me. 
 You are both infected with the same entitlement mentality that has bred like cancerous germs in UAW halls for the last countless decades, and whose plague is now sweeping the nation, awaiting our new "messiah" to wave his magical wand and make all our problems go away, while at the same time allowing our once-great nation to keep "living the dream." The dream is over! 
 The dream that we can ignore the consumer for years while management myopically focuses on its personal rewards packages at the same time that our factories have been filled with the world's most overpaid, arrogant, ignorant and laziest entitlement-minded "laborers" without paying the price for these atrocities … and that still the masses will line up to buy our products 
 Don't tell me I'm wrong. Don't accuse me of not knowing of what I speak. I have called on Ford, GM, Chrysler, TRW, Delphi, Kelsey Hayes, American Axle and countless other automotive OEMs and Tier ones for 3 decades now throughout the Midwest and what I've seen over the years in these union shops can only be described as disgusting. 
 Mr Clark, president of General Motors, states: "There is widespread sentiment in this country, our government and especially in the media, that the current crisis is completely the result of bad management. It is not…" 
 You're right – it's not JUST management … how about the electricians who walk around the plants like lords in feudal times, making people wait on them for countless hours while they drag around … so they can come in on the weekend and make double and triple time for a job they easily could have done within their normal 40 hour week.
 How about the line workers who threaten newbies with all kinds of scare tactics for putting out too many parts on a shift…and for being too productive (mustn't expose the lazy bums who have been getting overpaid for decades for their horrific underproduction, must we?!?) Do you reallynot know about this stuff?!? 
 How about this great sentiment abridged from Mr. Clarke's sad plea: 
 over the last few years …we have closed the quality and efficiency gaps with our competitors. 
 What the hell has Detroit been doing for the last 40 years?!? Did we really JUST wake up to the gaps in quality and efficiency between us and them? The K car vs. the Accord? The Pinto vs. the Civic?!? Do I need to go on?
We are living through the inevitable outcome of the actions of the United States auto industry for decades. Time to pay for your sins, Detroit. 
 I attended an economic summit last week where a brilliant economist, Alan Beaulieu, surprised the crowd when he said he would not have given the banks a penny of "bailout money." Yes, he said, this would cause short-term problems, but despite what people like George Bush and Troy Clark would have us believe, the sun would in fact rise the next day -- and something else would happen: where there had been greedy and sloppy banks, new efficient ones would pop up -- that is how a free market system works. It does work if we would let it work. 
 But for some reason we are now deciding that the rest of the world is right and that capitalism doesn't work, that we need the government to step in and "save us" -- save us, hell – we're nationalizing, and unfortunately too many of this once-fine nation's citizens don't even have a clue that this is what's really happening -- but they sure can tell you the stats on their favorite sports teams! Yeah – THAT'S important… 
 Does it occur to ANYONE that the "competition" has been producing vehicles, EXTREMELY PROFITABLY, for decades now in this country?... 
 How can that be??? 
 Let's see… 
 Fuel efficient… 
 Listening to customers… 
 Investing in the proper tooling and automation for the long haul… 
 Not being too complacent or arrogant to listen to Dr W Edwards Deming 4 decades ago 
 Ever increased productivity through quality, lean and six sigma plans… 
 Treating vendors like strategic partners, rather than like "the enemy"… 
 Efficient front and back offices… 
 Non union environment… 
 Again, I could go on and on, but I really wouldn't be telling anyone anything they really don't already know in their hearts 
 I have six children, so I am not unfamiliar with the concept of wanting someone to bail you out of a mess that you have gotten yourself into – my children do this on a weekly, if not daily basis, as I did at their age. I do for them what my parents did for me (one of their greatest gifts, by the way) – I make them stand on their own two feet and accept the consequences of their actions and work them through. 
 Radical concept, huh… 
 Am I there for them in the wings? Of course – but only until such time as they need to be fully on their own as adults 
 I don't want to oversimplify a complex situation, but there certainly are unmistakable parallels here between the proper role of parenting and government. 
 Detroit and the United States need to pay for their sins. 
 Bad news people – it's coming whether we like it or not. 
 The newly elected messiah really doesn't have a magic wand big enough to "make it all go away." I laughed as I heard Obama "reeling it back in" almost immediately after the vote count was tallied. "We might not do it in a year…or in four…" Where was that kind of talk when he was RUNNINGfor the office 
 Stop trying to put off the inevitable … 
 That house in Florida really isn't worth $750,000… 
 People who jump across a border really don't deserve free health-care benefits… 
 That job driving that forklift for the big 3 really isn't worth $85,000 a year… 
 We really shouldn't allow Wal-Mart to stock their shelves with products acquired from a country that unfairly manipulates their currency and has the most atrocious human rights infractions on the face of the globe… 
 That couple whose combined income is less than $50,000 really shouldn't be living in that $485,000 home… 
 Let the market correct itself people – it will. Yes it will be painful, but it's gonna be painful either way, and the bright side of my proposal is that on the other side of it is a nation that appreciates what is has, doesn't live beyond its means, gets back to basics and redevelops the work ethic that made it the greatest nation in the history of the world … and probably turns back to God. 
 Sorry – don't cut my head off, I'm just the messenger sharing with you the "bad news" 
 
Gregory J Knox 
President 
Knox Machinery, Inc. 
Franklin, Ohio 45005 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Pretty true I'd say!

[SDHomesteader]

AMEN to that. All I can say Is AMENNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN.

Kind of reminds me of Socialized medical care, they have gotten us soo fooled that it wouldn't work or that its horrible that we all believe it and it isn't so.

[SDHomesteader]

Better yet, heres the real explanation of the bailouts.


Subject: BailOut explained (Author Unknown)

Young Henry in Montana bought a horse from a farmer for $100. The
farmer agreed to deliver the horse the next day. The next day he drove
up and said, "Sorry son but I have some bad news, the horse died."
Henry replied, "Well, then just give me my money back."

The farmer said, "Can't do that as I went and spent the money already"
Henry said, "Ok, then, just bring me the dead horse." The farmer
asked, "What are you going to do with him?" Henry said, "I'm going to
raffle him off." The farmer said, "You can't raffle off a dead horse!"
Henry said, "Sure I can, just watch me and I just won't tell anybody
he's dead."

A month later, the farmer met up with Henry and asked, "What
happened with that dead horse?" Henry said, "I raffled him off, sold 500
tickets at two dollars each, and made a $998 profit. The farmer
said, "Didn't anyone complain?" Henry said, "Just the guy who won so
I gave him his two dollars back."

Henry grew up and works now for the government and he was the one
who figured out how to "bail us out".

[blackhillsdreams]

That completely CRACKED ME UP! Sadly, that is probably closer to reality than it is to being a joke!~

Good one! This reminds me of a scene in "The Education of Little Tree", when he bought a sickly cow from a man outside of church and it died on the way home.

[Chris19]

Interesting letter, blackhillsdreams. Granted, I would like to see GM, Ford, and Chrysler succeed, but do so in a more efficient and sensible manner. The letter exposes some interesting questions and points. But it is not just the automakers, but society in general needs to get back to common sense and sensibility to get our nation back on track to a better future with less loopiness that has been plaguing it in recent years.

[blackhillsdreams]

Originally Posted by Chris19

Interesting letter, blackhillsdreams. Granted, I would like to see GM, Ford, and Chrysler succeed, but do so in a more efficient and sensible manner. The letter exposes some interesting questions and points. But it is not just the automakers, but society in general needs to get back to common sense and sensibility to get our nation back on track to a better future with less loopiness that has been plaguing it in recent years.

Yep, I agree with your assessment which is really why I posted it. I'd be willing to bet that a LOT of people feel the same way you and I do these days. I can't imagine talking to very many people who wouldn't agree that living in "simpler times" with less material "fluff" would equal less stress and more happiness for most of us. I'll admit I've purchased far too many "things" I didn't need on credit cards in my life and I'm working very hard to remedy that.

[Jammie]

Maybe this recession is a blessing in disguise? Kind of a bad statement for those that are suffering, but it's flipped through my mind a few times.

It all goes back to that sense of entitlement that I mentioned in a previous thread. I don't know if unions encourage that or if it's just the difference of people in different locations. I do know that the people at the two places here in town who got their hours cut are just greatful they still have a job with benies. I also know that the people who work at Trail King who weren't laid off aren't concerned about the wage freeze or the plant closing up for a bit. They're just greatful to have employment and health insurance. That's a totally different mentality then the automakers seem to have. Their complaint is legit concerning why should they have to suffer when the higher-ups are still living good, but it's only common sense that having a job with less pay or no raises is better then not having one at all.

[blackhillsdreams]

Originally Posted by Jammie

Maybe this recession is a blessing in disguise? Kind of a bad statement for those that are suffering, but it's flipped through my mind a few times.

It all goes back to that sense of entitlement that I mentioned in a previous thread. I don't know if unions encourage that or if it's just the difference of people in different locations. I do know that the people at the two places here in town who got their hours cut are just greatful they still have a job with benies. I also know that the people who work at Trail King who weren't laid off aren't concerned about the wage freeze or the plant closing up for a bit. They're just greatful to have employment and health insurance. That's a totally different mentality then the automakers seem to have. Their complaint is legit concerning why should they have to suffer when the higher-ups are still living good, but it's only common sense that having a job with less pay or no raises is better then not having one at all.

I agree with you on this just about 100%. I do have one thing to say though. I'm hearing almost EVERY DAY from someone in passing something along the lines of "Well at least I have a job" or "Well, we're lucky to be working". For the most part, that is true. The problem is at some point, employers will take advantage of this situation and boderline abuse their employees in any number of ways because they know "hey, these people are lucky to be working for me..., I'll push them harder". On some levels, that's ok and all part of balancing out the system. You take the good with the bad and in hard times, things are well.... hard! But you do the best you can.

My point is, I'm working more hours now than I've worked in over 15 years and for less pay. Yesterday, I worked 16 hours straight because of an emergency. Did I get a thank you from anyone? NOPE!~ This morning I didn't come straight to the office as I had to stop at two different Architects to drop off various documents, what I got for my 16 hour day was a phone call wondering where I was first thing this morning since I was out running those errands. BUT "I'm lucky to be working!!".

Get my point?

People in China working 16 hour regular days for next to nothing will tell you "We're lucky to be working". My Wife's Mother in Colombia working 6 and 7 day weeks for roughly $400 per MONTH will tell you "I'm lucky to be working". People in Mexico working in a Dodge or GM Truck plant for $10 a day, or ladies in Jaurez, just South of the Texas border for roughly the same will also tell you "I'm lucky to be working". Is that where we are headed????? If the "I'm lucky to be working" mentality becomes too strong, the potential for these kinds of situations become very possible... Think about it and get back to me...

[Jammie]

You make some very good points. I'm not actually anti-union~more in favor of balance.

IMHO the union for the Big Three is out of line with making no concessions. It's one thing if the companies had the $$ to maintain the wage and benies they're giving their employees and it's another thing to be begging the govt. (which is broke to begin with) for money so they can keep going. You'd honestly think that at that point the people would say, "You know, I'd rather have a job and settle for $50 an hour with benies rather then be at the unemployment office." Yet they're arrogant about it and refuse to give up a thing. At who's expense will this all end up at? Yup, the people who are making 8, 10, 12 per hour.

And as far as the top dogs at those companies~the high wage earners who are now begging for the $$ are the same ones who had a big hand in running it into the ground. People shouldn't be rewarded for their failures, yet they are. Maybe if they'd be willing to concede, their employees would be more prone to do it. Sort of a lead by example scenario. Also, if the higher ups won't take a reduction, maybe they need to be replaced with people who'd be thrilled to have that job at a lesser wage.

As far as the personal side of employment~you've just GOT to pat yourself on the back knowing you're doing your best cause you'll rarely find any employer who'll hand out many compliments. They come on occasion, but they're pretty far and few between.

[SDHomesteader]

Ok here's a scenario for ya Blackhillsdreams, Got a guy up here that lost his wife 2 yrs ago, resorted back to alcoholism and hasn't been able to hold a job for more than a month or so. He owns his home. He's about 40 some yrs old. Now jobs aren't exactly very plentiful up here either in this area. He is now facing a Back Taxes Sale on his house, he owes 400 in unpaid water bills, He has no propane for the winter and is relying on what wood pellets he has left in his garage for his pellet stove, Gawd Knows what his electric bill is like. Everytime he would get a check or pay, he would go get cigs and beer. About a month ago he got sobered up and was doing just great. Then along come brother last week bearing alcohol and down he went again. This is a great guy when he's not on alcohol, Anytime I needed a hand doing something I could count on him. No one will give him a job up here now. And I just can't quite get it through his head what the alcohol is doing to him. Today we just found out about the back taxes and the sale. We got him set up on Food Stamps last week but now can't get him to commit to coming down and getting food. We are working on getting him the propane assistance. But how is this guy supposed to get ahead now when he can't find any work.

I placed a couple calls today and have someone that can secure me enough money if I need to buy his place on the back taxes to keep him from loosing the place. My next concern is, can I talk some sense into this guy and bring him around to realize that the alcohol is doing alot of this to him. I don't want him thinking I am doing this to take the house out from under him. Before he lost his wife, he didn't drink, was sober for 16 yrs while married to her. I am hoping to get it through his head that Chelle (his wife), what would she think of him destroying himself like this. Wouldn't she want him to keep going on. I know its hard to loose someone like that but I gotta get it through his head that by doing this he is destroying all he worked for, for her.

So not to be mean, yeah consider yourself Lucky your working any number of hours to bring home the bacon. Sit down and think how many people would Kill to be in your shoes and making any kind of income. I had a friend back in iowa (council bluffs) that had a great job, making fiberglass doors. All she had to do was paint them. Makes 15 an hour. All the overtime she could want. OVertime from hell. then she had the nerve to sit there one day and say she wasn't making enough money for what she was doing. (Censored) You have got to be kidding me. 15 an hour, you name it overtime and the NERVE to complain. You know how many people that would kill to make even half what she made (at the time). She was single, had rent that was less than ours in a little one bedroom house, and a Truck Payment. That was it. I don't know where the hell she spent her money but damn if I was in that situation I would be living high on the hog and have 9/10ths of it in a savings or retirement account.

I'm not exactly sitting pretty up here but by all my means necessary I am gonna try and help this guy get his act together and hopefully keep him from loosing his house and what dignity he has left. I would hate to be loosing my place like that, so I can imagine how he's feeling. The one thing I may have to do though is threaten the bars up here to not SELL HIM A DAMN THING ANYMORE. Everyone up here knows what he's going through yet everytime he walks in to get some alcohol, the allmighty dollar rules versus saying, hey I'm not gonna contribute to your destruction anymore. Lets make that 5 bucks instead of helping a guy out from ruining his life.

I'm really not trying to be mean, but, Consider yourself lucky to have a job and working.