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Old 11-25-2011, 07:13 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian.Pearson View Post
At some point, dark energy started causing the expansion.
Yep however before dark energy the force known as Cosmic Inflation is what propelled what we percieve as the universe out of the Big Bang.

So like all other astrophysicists i too ponder just what was the mysterious ignitor force before cosmic inflation?
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Old 11-25-2011, 07:35 PM
 
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Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
It could have been compacted into a size smaller than that --- with a spatial dimension of zero, and was therefore nothing, yet just as tangible as it seems today.
Hmm ... how could it had been compacted in a spatial space of zero as that would represent ''nothingness'' and yet the universe did exist before the big bang albeit in an sub atomic state (if big bang theory is correct) as that would be something from nothing?
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Old 11-25-2011, 07:35 PM
 
Location: Texas
5,070 posts, read 9,078,959 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RottenChester View Post
This implies dark energy existed prior to the Big Bang. If so, this means dark energy existed before the creation of the Universe.

According to the law of conservation of energy, energy can neither be created nor destroyed, therefore if dark energy is real, it has always just existed.
Well we don't really have any idea what dark energy or dark matter is, so we don't have a way of neatly pigeon-holing it.

Nor can we tell whether or not matter or energy has always existed. Could be the conservation of energy or matter is not quite correct.
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Old 11-25-2011, 07:37 PM
 
Location: Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6 Foot 3 View Post
Yep however before dark energy the force known as Cosmic Inflation is what propelled what we percieve as the universe out of the Big Bang.

So like all other astrophysicists i too ponder just what was the mysterious ignitor force before cosmic inflation?
Yeah, same here.
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Old 11-25-2011, 08:11 PM
 
5,206 posts, read 8,210,851 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6 Foot 3 View Post
Hmm ... how could it had been compacted in a spatial space of zero as that would represent ''nothingness'' and yet the universe did exist before the big bang albeit in an sub atomic state (if big bang theory is correct) as that would be something from nothing?
Not exactly. The universe did not necessarily exist before the Big Bang. The best that can be said is that there were energetic conditions which led to the creation of the universe. If the universe had its beginning with the Big Bang, then before the Big Bang there was no universe, thus we have a hypothesis of something like the universe created out of nothing.

Here are a few interesting vids that take a look at the subjects of what caused the Big Bang, how the universe could be created out of nothing, and the expansion of the universe.



What Caused the Big Bang? - YouTube



The Universe - Created Out Of Nothing? - YouTube



The Expanding Universe - YouTube
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Old 11-26-2011, 06:20 AM
 
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Thanks for the links NightBazaar as i've learned a few things by watching them.

O.k. i want to focus on the uncertainty principle as that was what i was looking for all this time as i didn't know what it was called and so the one thing that used to bother me all the time was that if the Big Bang theory is correct then how could all the entire matter, dark matter, energy, dark energy etc. in the entire universe been compacted into a finite sub atomic pinhead?

So now i'm going to assume then that wasn't the case after all but instead at just before the Big Bang at the uncertainty principle point there was just a tiny amount of energy (10-99 cubic cm) that had a tiny explosion that within a matter of sub atomic time chain reacted into cosmic inflation (10^78) to continously expand upon itself and create new energy and matter as it expanded.

Am i making any sense here?
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Old 11-26-2011, 06:46 AM
 
Location: Toronto, ON
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6 Foot 3 View Post
Yep however before dark energy the force known as Cosmic Inflation is what propelled what we percieve as the universe out of the Big Bang.

So like all other astrophysicists i too ponder just what was the mysterious ignitor force before cosmic inflation?

The Mind was it's own ignitor and the speed of light to inform of the universe for It was truly thus plausibly infinite.
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Old 11-26-2011, 09:31 AM
 
Location: The Internet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgnostic View Post
The Mind was it's own ignitor and the speed of light to inform of the universe for It was truly thus plausibly infinite.
After, "The Mind was it's own ignitor..." the rest doesn't make sense in the English language.
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Old 11-26-2011, 09:56 AM
 
Location: The Internet
355 posts, read 774,877 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6 Foot 3 View Post
Thanks for the links NightBazaar as i've learned a few things by watching them.

O.k. i want to focus on the uncertainty principle as that was what i was looking for all this time as i didn't know what it was called and so the one thing that used to bother me all the time was that if the Big Bang theory is correct then how could all the entire matter, dark matter, energy, dark energy etc. in the entire universe been compacted into a finite sub atomic pinhead?

So now i'm going to assume then that wasn't the case after all but instead at just before the Big Bang at the uncertainty principle point there was just a tiny amount of energy (10-99 cubic cm) that had a tiny explosion that within a matter of sub atomic time chain reacted into cosmic inflation (10^78) to continously expand upon itself and create new energy and matter as it expanded.

Am i making any sense here?
I'm not satisfied with what that video had to say. The whole notion of the uncertainty principle begins with, "Let's assert that some kind of Space-time quantum phone sort of something existed before our own Universe began." This leads to a whole bunch of new questions like where did it come from and in what space/dimension does it exist?

They also don't satisfactorily explain how in 10^-43 seconds, 1/100,000 of a gram becomes the universe we see today. Why would the scalar field divide space into a brief period of extreme exponential expansion? What fuels this supposed chain reaction?
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Old 11-26-2011, 01:32 PM
 
5,206 posts, read 8,210,851 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RottenChester View Post
I'm not satisfied with what that video had to say.
But an infinite and eternal universe is more satisfactory to you? How so? And on what basis?

The vids I posted represent one hypothesis regarding the origin of the universe. It was to help clarify what another poster was trying to say. That said, there are certainly other hypotheses.

I have yet to see any validation to assert such a claim of an eternal, or infinite universe is even plausible. Are you saying that quantum fluctuations are not possible? All you suggested was that some kind of unknown energy source regenerates the universe. Would you mind elaborating on any effects of this unknown energy that would give reason to consider it plausible? The link you provided offers nothing supportive and is just an imaginative rehashing of Fred Hoyle's Steady State (eternal universe) theory. The only references he provides are to his own pages.

I agree with his 'new definition' of the term "nothing", although there's nothing there's new about that. I assume you feel the universe has always existed, that in effect it is an eternal structure. And that's fine. However, the suggestion that the universe as something from nothing cannot be true is utter nonsense. Assuming that the universe had a beginning, then regardless of whatever field of conditions it may have originated from, or how it came to be, there was a point when the universe did not exist (nothing). In other words, we have a valid example of something (the universe) from nothing which is relative to the universe itself, not to any possible preexisting conditions. Frankly, the only thing known for certain is that we are limited to the confines of the universe, whether it's finite or infinite, and as such there isn't any way to know what conditions may have preexisted it. And since you prefer to view an eternal universe scenario, you're still bound and limited by the particle horizon of the observable universe.
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