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Old 01-26-2012, 09:08 AM
 
Location: Bike to Surf!
3,080 posts, read 10,036,918 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bacci Balls View Post
Just 120+ years ago, many scientists believed that "heavier than air flying machines" could not exist.
Sorry, I hate incorrect statements like this. 120 years ago, they had kites and gliders didn't they? So no one with half a brain cell in the 1600's or earlier--let alone "scientists" --would tell you that heavier than air flying machines couldn't exist, only that the present-day technology could not create them.

As for fighting invading aliens, unlike the ridiculous scenarios Hollywood presents, we have ZERO CHANCE unless they're not at all serious about killing us.

On a geological time scale, we're an eyeblink, and a million times less than that on a Universal time scale. IF they can project any sort of military force across light-years, and decide they want to Human-B-Gone Earth, they are so far advanced that we will think it's the rapture when they vaporize the entire population before we even know they have entered our solar system.

Even if they--by some impossible coincidence--had just a 100 year jump on us (not the likely multi-million year head-start) they could, with minimal effort, nudge a texas-sized asteroid into Earth's path and wipe out civilization. Slightly bigger and kill everything bigger than a cockroach. Slightly bigger still, and you sterilize the entire crust. That's tech WE can almost create today (but certainly not defend against), and would be child's play for an interstellar-capable civilization.

No, if there's other intelligent life out there, it's likely we're simply not advanced enough for them to bother contacting us. Or they can't. Or they aren't allowed to screw up our development. Or they don't know we're here.
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Old 01-26-2012, 10:56 AM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
18,073 posts, read 20,160,760 times
Reputation: 14027
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bacci Balls View Post
Faster than light travel is inevitable - that's not a science fiction-ism. Just 120+ years ago, many scientists believed that "heavier than air flying machines" could not exist. Recently, an experiment was done on quantum entanglement which demonstrated that some operation was performed at something like 17 times faster than the speed of light. Aside from quantum computing, this phenomena will likely show the way of how to break through the accepted speed limit of light (aside from the recently reported speed of some neutrinos doing this outside of the quantum state).
Before we get to "faster than light" travel, we FIRST need to attain much higher speeds than we're currently capable of.

Even the fastest speeds that have been reached by spacecraft so far are a very tiny fraction of 1% of the speed of light.

But then, there's the issue of time dilation to deal with even if we're able to reach speeds approaching the speed of light.

Last edited by BigCityDreamer; 01-26-2012 at 11:21 AM..
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Old 01-26-2012, 11:10 AM
 
5,203 posts, read 8,205,785 times
Reputation: 3188
Quote:
Originally Posted by sponger42 View Post
Even if they--by some impossible coincidence--had just a 100 year jump on us (not the likely multi-million year head-start) they could, with minimal effort, nudge a texas-sized asteroid into Earth's path and wipe out civilization. Slightly bigger and kill everything bigger than a cockroach. Slightly bigger still, and you sterilize the entire crust. That's tech WE can almost create today (but certainly not defend against), and would be child's play for an interstellar-capable civilization.

No, if there's other intelligent life out there, it's likely we're simply not advanced enough for them to bother contacting us. Or they can't. Or they aren't allowed to screw up our development. Or they don't know we're here.
It's also possible such intelligent life forms could have unknown microbes which are beneficial to them, but that we'd have zero resistence to.

In my opinion, I'd be inclined to think that if there are interstellar travelers zooming around the galaxy, machines (robotics) would seem to be better candidates for such profoundly long voyages. I can't envision how complex organisms could travel at or faster than the speed of light. Information, yes. Living beings in a spacecraft? Possible, but it seems doubtful. I can think of a few alternatives, but there are still limitations. It's also possible there could be multigenerational interstellar nomads that just don't live on planets anymore, but rather live in extremely large complex spacecrafts exploring the galaxy, maybe stopping at planets to stock up on resources.
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Old 01-26-2012, 11:32 AM
 
Location: Maryland not Murlin
8,193 posts, read 22,569,818 times
Reputation: 6168
Quote:
Originally Posted by sponger42 View Post
Sorry, I hate incorrect statements like this. 120 years ago, they had kites and gliders didn't they? So no one with half a brain cell in the 1600's or earlier--let alone "scientists" --would tell you that heavier than air flying machines couldn't exist, only that the present-day technology could not create them.

As for fighting invading aliens, unlike the ridiculous scenarios Hollywood presents, we have ZERO CHANCE unless they're not at all serious about killing us.

On a geological time scale, we're an eyeblink, and a million times less than that on a Universal time scale. IF they can project any sort of military force across light-years, and decide they want to Human-B-Gone Earth, they are so far advanced that we will think it's the rapture when they vaporize the entire population before we even know they have entered our solar system.

Even if they--by some impossible coincidence--had just a 100 year jump on us (not the likely multi-million year head-start) they could, with minimal effort, nudge a texas-sized asteroid into Earth's path and wipe out civilization. Slightly bigger and kill everything bigger than a cockroach. Slightly bigger still, and you sterilize the entire crust. That's tech WE can almost create today (but certainly not defend against), and would be child's play for an interstellar-capable civilization.

No, if there's other intelligent life out there, it's likely we're simply not advanced enough for them to bother contacting us. Or they can't. Or they aren't allowed to screw up our development. Or they don't know we're here.
Once again this goes back to the humanification of other entities.

First off, how can one measure the intelligence of an alien race? Against human achievement and advancement? That is a poor indicator. Until a Universal yard-stick is established, based on actual alien intelligence from multiple sources, all we are doing is playing specieism with us as the standard.

Second, who are we too, and what gives us the right, to determine the level of intelligence of an alien life form? You know, let's say there is life out there---in multiple locations. Perhaps a particular species has developed space-travel that would allow them to traverse the Universe in a rather quick fashion. But, it turns out that by Universal standards, this race of aliens, even though they are "light years" a head of us, are actually primitive when it comes to the rest of the Universe. Clarke's book, Childhood's End is a good example of this.

Also, why does an alien race need to develop technology in order to be deemed intelligent? Look at dolphins and octopi. Both are extremely intelligent. Some would even say they are possibly more intelligent than humans. But can they build a space craft? No! So therefore they must be beneath us in intelligence

I need to ask, why do people assume that an alien race would not only have the technology to wipe us out, but also the desire. Once again, we are humanifying them. Just because we feel the need to bomb the heck out of each other for the dumbest reasons, doesn't mean they'd do the same. Let alone have that technology. Remember that scene from Hitchhiker's guide to the Galaxy where the entire invading alien fleet was accidentally swallowed by a dog?

The Universe is an extremely large place. There are tribes in the Amazon rainforest that are still being, or only very recently have been, discovered. If there are groups of people, whole societies, on this planet that we still do not know about, should give you the perspective of what it will be like trying to find someone else out there.

I'm not picking on you Sponger, by the way.
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Old 01-26-2012, 12:23 PM
PDD
 
Location: The Sand Hills of NC
8,774 posts, read 15,158,374 times
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Who's to say they're not already here? Or at least their descendants.
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Old 01-26-2012, 12:56 PM
Status: "living in a political world, where mercy walks the plank" (set 11 days ago)
 
Location: Bel Air, California
21,721 posts, read 22,528,536 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PDD View Post
Who's to say they're not already here? Or at least their descendants.
Get Him!
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Old 01-28-2012, 12:39 AM
 
Location: PRC
3,235 posts, read 3,361,256 times
Reputation: 2950
To answer these questions all we have to do is ask ourselves what has already happened. Nothing - because the dinosaurs amongst us do not acknowledge that anything has actually changed, or the authorities do not want to "create panic" by discovering intelligent non-human beings.

We need to think outside the box about alien biology. Just because we need water and oxygen, does not mean they evolved needing the same resources as we do. If you think about it, there are probably aliens which have evolved to survive in every habitat imaginable - not just on Earth, but also on asteroids and planets too. Looking closely at satellite images and spacecraft images there does appear to be evidence that there are others here as well as out there in space.

Even if an alien were to appear on TV, we would all probably think it was trick photography and not take any notice. Modern day War of the Worlds would not have any effect at all on de-sensitized man used to movies and TV special effects.

I think we are looking in the wrong place. We need to look at parts of the Earth where we find it difficult to survive and then see if any other being is using those areas instead. Antartica is a prime example. Man is only living in pre-fabricated huts and mostly for the summer month(s) and mostly near to waterways for supply drops.

Aliens with millions of years of evolutionary experience would not even think how we think and probably would not even exist in a physical form that we can detect unless they wanted us to. It is ridiculous for us to try to imagine how existence would be after this length of evolution.

Like Men in Black movie said, let the people live their happy little lives not knowing what really goes on in the Solar System/Universe.
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Old 01-29-2012, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Westwood, MA
3,608 posts, read 4,774,914 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bacci Balls View Post
Faster than light travel is inevitable - that's not a science fiction-ism. Just 120+ years ago, many scientists believed that "heavier than air flying machines" could not exist. Recently, an experiment was done on quantum entanglement which demonstrated that some operation was performed at something like 17 times faster than the speed of light. Aside from quantum computing, this phenomena will likely show the way of how to break through the accepted speed limit of light (aside from the recently reported speed of some neutrinos doing this outside of the quantum state).
No, it's not inevitable. Inevitable doesn't mean you find science fantasy movies so convincing that they have to be true. It certainly doesn't mean that something that is impossible as we understand the universe will definitely be achieved in the future.

As we currently understand, in agreement with every measurement that's ever been accepted and confirmed, information cannot be transmitted faster than the speed of light. Furthermore, nothing with mass can be transmitted even at the speed of light. If you learn more about quantum entanglement you'll learn that while some of the effects can seemingly be transmitted at greater than the speed of light, in order to do so one must first move the entangled states away from each other at below the speed of light. There may be physics we learn in the future that teaches us why all of our measurements are limited, but there doesn't have to be. It could just be that the universe has a speed limit and there is no way of going faster.

And even if our measurements and theory are wrong and there are practical methods of faster than light speed travel, it doesn't mean that we'll be able to actually invent practical devices. It might take resources and technology that we never achieve. Alternately we could be wiped out for some reason before we eventually would have.
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Old 01-30-2012, 05:27 AM
 
Location: PRC
3,235 posts, read 3,361,256 times
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Quote:
In my opinion, I'd be inclined to think that if there are interstellar travelers zooming around the galaxy, machines (robotics) would seem to be better candidates for such profoundly long voyages. I can't envision how complex organisms could travel at or faster than the speed of light. Information, yes. Living beings in a spacecraft? Possible, but it seems doubtful. I can think of a few alternatives, but there are still limitations. It's also possible there could be multigenerational interstellar nomads that just don't live on planets anymore, but rather live in extremely large complex spacecrafts exploring the galaxy, maybe stopping at planets to stock up on resources.
Isn't this rather limiting other species to the same methods of transport as we currently have or imagine?

Information can flow faster than light as in the speed of thought, so with a few million years of evolution we are almost bound to progress past spaceships fuelled by rockets.

The CIA were/are running a remote viewing section where people could project their consciousness to another place and report what they saw. There is only a very small step from this to exploring other planets. What limitations to this kind of travel are there? Only that currently we cannot take anything with us.
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Old 01-30-2012, 06:17 AM
 
Location: On the brink of WWIII
21,093 posts, read 24,360,985 times
Reputation: 7812
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jermaine88 View Post
If we found Signals in space, (If SETI found something) or maybe if one of our Rovers, or Satellites, came across Intelligent Alien Life on another Planet, Moon, or whatever else. This Proof was undeniable, it wasn't a false alarm,

Would you care?

Just wondering.

I would be care a whole lot more if they could find intelligent life here on earth...
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