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Old 03-11-2012, 12:27 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
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And what exactly kind of bird would that be that looks like that?
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Old 03-11-2012, 12:45 PM
 
Location: Somewhere in northern Alabama
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Herons and egrets have wing movements and a large enough body to look like that when caught in motion.

Super 8 sound was around 18fps, IIRC. As coalman pointed out, interlacing might be a factor in the upconversion. There are all sorts of other artifacts and effects possible when there is something like this. If a filter was used to smooth out the grain of the film, the thin neck and head might get smoothed out of the picture. Serious, up in the sky, its a BIRD. Yeesh. (Mosquitoes and love-bugs are darker in color.)
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Old 03-11-2012, 01:24 PM
 
Location: Tampa, FL
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by harry chickpea View Post
Likely a bird. The whole area around the launch site is a sanctuary, and the noise of the lift-offs disturbs them.
Exactly. Looks like a bird or perhaps a series of them passing between the lens and the launch.

Quote:
And what exactly kind of bird would that be that looks like that?
Here in central Florida and particularly at the sanctuary around the launch site there are lots of large bodied wading birds that could account for those streaks. In addition to several types of herons and egrets as mentioned, white ibis are also pretty large and there are huge flocks of them in the area as well, plus seagulls and pelicans and even roseate spoonbills (but that flamingo pink is hard to mistake). When I saw my first shuttle launch from an observation area nearby (the very first one, actually - Columbia), I was struck by the way all the birds took to wing with the ship like an avian escort, as the news of the launch propagated outward through the flocks, at the speed of sound.

I also saw the Challenger explosion with my own eyes in the sky, and I can assure you, no object hit the shuttle. There were no big clouds flying past that day, it was record cold and in FL that means clear. The sad truth is that NASA launched that day because politics and schedules were given higher priority than the safety warnings of their own engineers. Isn't that conspiracy enough?
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Old 03-11-2012, 09:27 PM
 
40,184 posts, read 41,790,512 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjg5 View Post
And what exactly kind of bird would that be that looks like that?
It's going to be way out of focus and secondly you have the motion both of which would make it very blurry.

When you're watching video full speed you may think you see stuff but in reality it's the eye/brain combination which is an amazing thing and will create what you should be seeing. That is why video works. Here's simple example, this uses a fast framerate. It appears smooth because your eye and brain create what it thinks should be there between the frames it is really seeing:





Now lets slow it down considerably:




On the oppisite end of the spectrum it's why they used to be able to slip a frame of popcorn into a film reel and no one would ever see it. It doesn't belong there so that information gets discarded at least visually.
Attached Thumbnails
Challenger: What is this object flying across screen prior to explosion?-blowup2.gif  

Last edited by thecoalman; 03-11-2012 at 09:39 PM..
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Old 03-13-2012, 12:14 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
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You can see it at the 00:38 mark in this video, about 40 seconds before the explosion.

First amateur video of Challenger shuttle explosion revealed | The Sideshow - Yahoo! News

It is too uniformly colored for a bird. A white ibis has conspicuous black wingtips and a red face and bill. A wood stork has mostly black wings and black head. Spoonbill has conspicuous black legs and feet trailing behind it in flight. All herons fly with their neck tucked deeply back in, forming an unmistakeable profile, and they extend their necks only on landing and takeoff. Some white egrets have yellow legs and bill, but there is enough resolution in the picture to see that the characteristic flight profile is missing:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-BilkwlUksy...+in+flight.jpg

There is ho bird in Florida smaller than a gull that has white upper plumage. A few sandpipers are quite pale, but would have more of a bullet-shaped profile in flight. So would a gull.

Cruising wading birds fly about 35 feet per second, and are about three feet long, so would fly their own length in about 1/10 of a second, or about 1/3 second to cross the width of the frame. Super-8 is normally shot at 18 frames per second, so if it was a bird, it should appear on about six frames.

Last edited by jtur88; 03-13-2012 at 01:06 AM..
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Old 03-13-2012, 07:37 AM
 
Location: Everybody is going to hurt you, you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for-B Marley
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Sorry, I've had computer problems the past few days, haven't been able to get online.

That's no bird. It moves way too fast. That's why so many frames per second. And it's right up there in the trail, not close to the camera.
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Old 03-13-2012, 08:42 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Whyte Byrd View Post
That's no bird. It moves way too fast.
We have no idea the length of the bird nor how wide a field of view it flew through but a bird could most certainly could have created this. The closer to the camera the faster it will fly through filed of view. There's also other factors such as zoom etc.

.....on the other hand this film appears to be taken from quite far away, most likely many miles so the field of view at the range the Challenger is at is going to be many miles across. The object itself would be enormous, you only have to look at how small the Challenger is in this footage to realize that. You can't even see the Challenger. since the footage is taken from so far away It would also have to be moving at an incredible speed.
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Old 03-13-2012, 09:35 AM
 
Location: Everybody is going to hurt you, you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for-B Marley
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
We have no idea the length of the bird nor how wide a field of view it flew through but a bird could most certainly could have created this. The closer to the camera the faster it will fly through filed of view. There's also other factors such as zoom etc.

.....on the other hand this film appears to be taken from quite far away, most likely many miles so the field of view at the range the Challenger is at is going to be many miles across. The object itself would be enormous, you only have to look at how small the Challenger is in this footage to realize that. You can't even see the Challenger. since the footage is taken from so far away It would also have to be moving at an incredible speed.
Yes? What am I missing here?

It's huge and it's fast. Hundreds--if not thousands--of miles per hour fast. It seems to be affecting the chem trail even, that's how close to the Challenger it is.
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Old 03-13-2012, 10:41 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whyte Byrd View Post
Yes? What am I missing here?

It's huge and it's fast. Hundreds--if not thousands--of miles per hour fast. It seems to be affecting the chem trail even, that's how close to the Challenger it is.
You're missing visual perspective. Things in the distance appear smaller and slower, and things closer appear larger and faster. While the Challenger is at a distance, it appears as it does because the camera is zoomed in on it. If the object passing by in front of the field of view is actually much closer to the camera, then it can appear to be much larger and faster. In other words, it's an illusion that the object is larger and faster.

Here's something to take into account as well. If in fact a large object had indeed closely passed by the Challenger, since it's visible in one clip, then it should also be visible in any other clips of the launch. NASA certainly flimed the launch from the beginning. Does the object show up in any of those clips or any clips by anyone else?
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Old 03-13-2012, 10:49 AM
 
Location: Everybody is going to hurt you, you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for-B Marley
9,506 posts, read 17,974,933 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post
You're missing visual perspective. Things in the distance appear smaller and slower, and things closer appear larger and faster. While the Challenger is at a distance, it appears as it does because the camera is zoomed in on it. If the object passing by in front of the field of view is actually much closer to the camera, then it can appear to be much larger and faster. In other words, it's an illusion that the object is larger and faster.

Here's something to take into account as well. If in fact a large object had indeed closely passed by the Challenger, since it's visible in one clip, then it should also be visible in any other clips of the launch. NASA certainly flimed the launch from the beginning. Does the object show up in any of those clips or any clips by anyone else?
Yes, I found one with a picture of a metallic object seen close to it seconds before it blew up. Someone was asking what it was.
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