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Old 05-30-2012, 11:25 AM
 
107 posts, read 164,926 times
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Does "Empty Space" exist, are there spaces in our universe that are just, well empty of any material or is that impossible, is matter distributed ( not evenly but ... ) throughout the universe or are there just patches of matter e.g. clusters of galaxies with void separating them?


I have been going over this in my mind for a few days, and it would make sense, that there would be empty space, and well at one point all of space will be so but are there any findings on this topic?
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Old 05-30-2012, 05:30 PM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,825 posts, read 20,496,555 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E.RR.Armoneaux View Post
Does "Empty Space" exist, are there spaces in our universe that are just, well empty of any material or is that impossible, is matter distributed ( not evenly but ... ) throughout the universe or are there just patches of matter e.g. clusters of galaxies with void separating them?

I have been going over this in my mind for a few days, and it would make sense, that there would be empty space, and well at one point all of space will be so but are there any findings on this topic?
Yes, there are voids. The largest void (void of both regular matter and dark matter) is in the constellation Eridanus, and is approximately one billion light years in diameter.

Biggest void in space is 1 billion light years across - space - 24 August 2007 - New Scientist
Largest Void | StarDate Online

Here is a list of additional voids: List of voids - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 05-30-2012, 10:19 PM
 
Location: Somewhere in northern Alabama
18,530 posts, read 55,444,914 times
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However... quantum physics shows the momentary existence of particles in a vacuum. Recently, a young Egyptian girl got a patent on a Casimer effect propulsion system that takes advantage of this. The thrust is tiny, but for spacecraft the cumulative effect is huge.
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Old 05-30-2012, 10:56 PM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
18,073 posts, read 20,160,760 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E.RR.Armoneaux View Post
Does "Empty Space" exist, are there spaces in our universe that are just, well empty of any material or is that impossible, is matter distributed ( not evenly but ... ) throughout the universe or are there just patches of matter e.g. clusters of galaxies with void separating them?


I have been going over this in my mind for a few days, and it would make sense, that there would be empty space, and well at one point all of space will be so but are there any findings on this topic?
The answer is no, true empty space does not exist. This is because virtual particles constantly pop in and out of existence everywhere in the universe.

Are virtual particles for real?
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Old 06-01-2012, 10:24 AM
 
706 posts, read 1,843,073 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
The answer is no, true empty space does not exist. This is because virtual particles constantly pop in and out of existence everywhere in the universe.

Are virtual particles for real?
But if you're going to introduce "virtual particles" which have different properties than "real particles", you are then free to define 'empty space' as the absence of real particles, and then you are back where you are started. You need to have consistent definitions of your terms in order to use them to define each other. You are talking about empty space, not-empty space, and true empty space, and then about particles, particle absence, and virtual particles, and then mixing the concepts all together as if they were not dependent on each other's definitions.

You have alluded to that by distinguishing "empty space" from what you have called "true empty space", implying yourself that "empty space" and "true empty space" are not the same thing. True empty space is denied by virtual particles, but non-true empty space (i.e., practical empty space) is merely the absence of non-virtual particles. Which are not the same as virtual particles, so empty space is not the same as true empty space.

OK, fine, you cannot have true empty space because you have virtual particles. But that does not detract from the thesis that you can have simple empty space because you can have an absence of simple particle.

Last edited by CowanStern; 06-01-2012 at 10:33 AM..
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Old 06-01-2012, 02:55 PM
 
5,203 posts, read 8,205,785 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E.RR.Armoneaux View Post
Does "Empty Space" exist, are there spaces in our universe that are just, well empty of any material or is that impossible, is matter distributed ( not evenly but ... ) throughout the universe or are there just patches of matter e.g. clusters of galaxies with void separating them?


I have been going over this in my mind for a few days, and it would make sense, that there would be empty space, and well at one point all of space will be so but are there any findings on this topic?
I'm going to approach your question from a different angle with my take on the subject. It really depends on what you mean by "Empty Space". Within the structure of the universe itself, there are voids, as well as supervoids. Voids are areas where there doesn't appear to be any galaxies, stars or gasses present. We can't be completely sure there are no stars at all. There could be some present, perhaps a few drifting wanderers that have been ejected out of galaxies, but they're so small in comparison to the voids, and so few and far apart that they simply can't be seen deep inside these gigantic features.

Regardless, voids can be generally described as vast expanses where there are no stars or galaxies present. In that sense they can be considered as being empty spaces. However, that doesn't mean voids contain nothing at all - they aren't completely empty. There would still be energetic particles passing through them.

The thinking as to why there are voids at all we have to look at the structure of the universe. At very large scales, galaxies fall into a structural pattern that are called filaments. They kind of resemble web-like threads, or a network of highways. The filaments contain galaxies which are usually connected to "hubs" containing larger clusters of galaxies. The filaments are more dense with matter, and the voids are less dense.

If you could look back at the early period of the formation of the universe, matter was more densely compacted together than it is now. Over time, the universe cooled and stretched out. As it stretched, what we see as filaments became more elongated and thinner. So what we see today are the areas where galaxies clumped together in filaments and hubs. Outside of the filaments are the voids which can be any number of different sizes. If the universe continues to expand indefinitely, the filaments will eventually become so thin that they'll likely break or separate, making the voids even larger.

It's thought that Dark Matter plays a big part in the structural formation of galaxies and filaments, with Gravity pulling matter together. At the same time, because the universe is continuing to expand, Dark Energy is suspected of creating more space at rates that are increasingly faster than Gravity can pull together. The end result is that the filaments become thinner and thinner until they'd eventually cease to exist. Galaxies would become so far apart from each other that all you'd see of the rest of the universe is utter darkness. The entire universe would become like the voids. Like particles moving through the voids seldom meeting up with any other particles, galaxies in the universe would eventually become so remote from each other that they'd not likely come close enough to any other galaxy to be seen.

The point is that while the voids essentially amount to gigantic empty spaces in the universe, they aren't completely empty. It's worth keeping in mind that all we really know about the universe is based on what's called the observable universe. We're pretty sure it's a lot larger than we can observe, but the light from any galaxies beyond the particle horizon is too far to ever reach us, especially as the expansion grows ever larger.
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Old 06-01-2012, 09:21 PM
 
28,607 posts, read 40,593,270 times
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In case anyone (everyone?) missed it ORLwizyan and E.RR.Armoneaux are both from Ville de La Nouvelle-Orléans.

If that doesn't seem like a stretch, they both pose seemingky "deep" questions which really aren't.

I have a feeling we are once again under attack by our favorite "pose a question but never answer any serious responses" poster who, as far as we can tell is a not too bright 12 year old.

My advice: ignore both of them.
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Old 06-01-2012, 09:59 PM
 
5,203 posts, read 8,205,785 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tek_Freek View Post
ORLwizyan
Is that the one who started a thread today with only 3 dots for text?
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Old 06-01-2012, 10:10 PM
 
Location: Westwood, MA
3,608 posts, read 4,774,914 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post
Is that the one who started a thread today with only 3 dots for text?
...---...?

I'm guessing his SOS was interrupted by zombies.
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Old 05-23-2015, 05:55 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania
106 posts, read 50,290 times
Reputation: 61
Yes there is a such a thing called "empty space". Its called a void. They call it a void because its devoid of everything and contains nothing.
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