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Old 06-07-2012, 09:17 PM
 
Location: Texas
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"These objects would have been tremendously bright," said Alexander "Sasha" Kashlinsky of NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Md., lead author of a new paper appearing in The Astrophysical Journal. "We can't yet directly rule out mysterious sources for this light that could be coming from our nearby universe, but it is now becoming increasingly likely that we are catching a glimpse of an ancient epoch. Spitzer is laying down a roadmap for NASA's upcoming James Webb Telescope, which will tell us exactly what and where these first objects were."
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Old 06-10-2012, 10:09 PM
 
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Boy this puts the technology into perspective.....

Quote:
Kashlinsky likens the observations to looking for Fourth of July fireworks in New York City from Los Angeles. First, you would have to remove all the foreground lights between the two cities, as well as the blazing lights of New York City itself. You ultimately would be left with a fuzzy map of how the fireworks are distributed, but they would still be too distant to make out individually
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Old 06-12-2012, 11:29 AM
 
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Looks like the conclusion is that we'll have to wait to see what the James Webb Space Telescope reveals about these objects.

NASA - NASA's Spitzer Finds First Objects Burned Furiously

Wider image of the region
http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/6...-full_full.jpg
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Old 06-12-2012, 03:04 PM
 
Location: Texas
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I read there would just be black holes before there were stars. I'd have to find that article.
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Old 06-12-2012, 04:58 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian.Pearson View Post
I read there would just be black holes before there were stars. I'd have to find that article.
That would seem likely. I saw an article about that as well.

Just what the objects in the OP article represent still remains unknown for the time being. It's pretty strange looking though. It'd be interesting to know just how far back in time it represents. It's thought to predate 500 million years after the Big Bang when stars and galaxies were beginning to form (about 13.2 billion years ago). Some of the oldest primitive galaxies found by the Hubble Ultra Deep Field survey date back about 13 billion years. If the recent Spitzer objects are "wildly massive stars", as had been one suggestion, then that would put star formation back much closer to the Big Bang.
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Old 06-12-2012, 05:49 PM
 
Location: Texas
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Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post
That would seem likely. I saw an article about that as well.

Just what the objects in the OP article represent still remains unknown for the time being. It's pretty strange looking though. It'd be interesting to know just how far back in time it represents. It's thought to predate 500 million years after the Big Bang when stars and galaxies were beginning to form (about 13.2 billion years ago). Some of the oldest primitive galaxies found by the Hubble Ultra Deep Field survey date back about 13 billion years. If the recent Spitzer objects are "wildly massive stars", as had been one suggestion, then that would put star formation back much closer to the Big Bang.
Do you remember the article saying they might be using another telescope?
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Old 06-12-2012, 06:25 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Brian.Pearson View Post
Do you remember the article saying they might be using another telescope?
Do you mean in relation to the Spitzer find?
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Old 06-12-2012, 08:21 PM
 
Location: Texas
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Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post
Do you mean in relation to the Spitzer find?
Yeah. It was the Webb telescope I was thinking about that is being built.

-------------

I"Henize 2-10" in another part of what we were thinking about had to do with Henize 2-10. I was thinking, "What the heck is Henize 2-10? I looked it up in the Wikipedia. It jived with the other thing we were thinking about.
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Old 06-12-2012, 11:22 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian.Pearson View Post
Yeah. It was the Webb telescope I was thinking about that is being built.

-------------

I"Henize 2-10" in another part of what we were thinking about had to do with Henize 2-10. I was thinking, "What the heck is Henize 2-10? I looked it up in the Wikipedia. It jived with the other thing we were thinking about.
Right. The James Webb space telescope should be able to better resolve what's going on out there. As it is now, the Spitzer has given a rather interesting albeit blurred teaser.

Speaking of telescopes, I see the European Extremely Large Telescope (E-ELT) has been given the go ahead to build. It will be the world's largest ground based telescope.
World's Largest Telescope Project Gets Green Light | E-ELT | Space.com

And speaking of supermassive black holes, I also saw a recent article suggesting that there may be more of them than previously thought silently wandering around the universe as rogues. It's thought to be rare, but there could be others out there. This was noted by what appears to be a large recoiled black hole that's been spotted being kicked out of a galaxy and is traveling at high speed. We were talking about merging and recoiled pairs not too long ago. And just when it was thought to be safe to go into the water....
Are Rogue Black Holes Wandering the Universe?
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Old 06-13-2012, 07:34 AM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian.Pearson View Post
I read there would just be black holes before there were stars. I'd have to find that article.
We were discussing that very subject not long ago, involving primordial black holes. Until that discussion I had always associated black holes with the death of stars in the 10 to 130 solar mass range.

When I started reading about primordial black holes, it seemed likely that prior to the Lepton Epoch (1 to 10 seconds after the Big Bang) there was sufficient temperature (100 billion degrees Kelvin and higher) and sufficient pressure to form black holes without creating a star first. The first Population III stars formed some 30 million years after the Big Bang, and they would have been massive.

For some reason that I have not yet figured out, everything I have read about primordial black holes makes the assumption that they would be small (less than 4.23 x 10^23 kg), which means that they would have evaporated away by now as a result of Hawking Radiation. I do not see why these primordial black holes could not be any size, from micro to super-massive.

After most leptons and anti-leptons are annihilated at the end of the Lepton Epoch the universe has cooled to a billion degrees Kelvin, and its energy is dominated by photons. During the Photon Epoch the temperature of the universe falls to the point where atomic nuclei can begin to form. It takes 17 minutes for nucleosynthesis to form all the hydrogen and helium. Hydrogen dominates comprising 75% of the universe, with helium constituting 25%, and only trace quantities of other nuclei.

Reionization would not occur until 150 million to 700 million years after the Big Bang, so it is not likely we will be able to see anything earlier than that point.

As to rogue primordial black holes, I think it is possible that some may still exist. They would be detectable through gravitational lensing, but I do not know how one could distinguish a stellar black hole from a primordial black hole. Even without a visible accretion disc, that much gravity in such a small area would bend the light of the objects behind the black hole, so detection would be possible.
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