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Old 09-25-2012, 12:01 PM
 
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Not sure if this is the right forum for this but it seems the most appropriate. I hope some of you find this interesting anyway, I did.

BBC News - UFO hunters: They are still watching
Quote:
A group of British UFO-watchers is celebrating 50 years of searching for spacecraft in the sky. What keeps them looking for extra-terrestrial life?
There are no windows in the functional-looking basement hall beneath a north London hotel. But everyone gathered here is gazing to the heavens.
Figuratively speaking, that is.
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Old 10-09-2012, 05:52 PM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,825 posts, read 20,496,555 times
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I find it astronomically improbable that there is intelligent extraterrestrial life visiting Earth. Such life-forms would have to a within 200 light years to even know there is intelligent life on Earth, assuming they were looking for it. Then there is the vast distances that would have to be traveled. Extraterrestrial or not, the laws of physics still apply.

It is far more likely that people who believe Earth has been visited by intelligent extraterrestrial life:
  • Know next to nothing about physics;
  • Want it to be true so badly they are self-deluded (as in a form of religious faith); and/or
  • More susceptible to paranoia than most;
As one of those who commented on the article said:
"It does seem strange that as the ability to take photographs has become almost universal with cell phones, the interest in UFOs shown by the press has diminished proportionately." -- Dave Walmsley, Milton Keynes, UK
I concur with his statement, but I do not find it "strange." On the contrary, I fully expected that the more we learn about the universe, the less likely people would advocate the existence of intelligent extraterrestrial life visiting Earth.

Having said that, I am quite certain that there are UFOs, but only of terrestrial origin. People have seen many things they cannot fully explain, but that is a big leap to suggest that they are intelligent extraterrestrial life forms. Far too big of a leap for me to make.

Last edited by Glitch; 10-09-2012 at 06:10 PM..
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Old 10-09-2012, 10:28 PM
 
15,924 posts, read 17,648,084 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitch View Post
I find it astronomically improbable that there is intelligent extraterrestrial life visiting Earth. Such life-forms would have to a within 200 light years to even know there is intelligent life on Earth, assuming they were looking for it. Then there is the vast distances that would have to be traveled. Extraterrestrial or not, the laws of physics still apply.
The multiverse has been around for at least 14 billion years, how egotistical of Mankind to think they know the laws of physics......
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Old 10-11-2012, 11:42 PM
 
25,059 posts, read 23,605,993 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitch View Post
I find it astronomically improbable that there is intelligent extraterrestrial life visiting Earth. Such life-forms would have to a within 200 light years to even know there is intelligent life on Earth, assuming they were looking for it. Then there is the vast distances that would have to be traveled. Extraterrestrial or not, the laws of physics still apply.

It is far more likely that people who believe Earth has been visited by intelligent extraterrestrial life:
  • Know next to nothing about physics;
  • Want it to be true so badly they are self-deluded (as in a form of religious faith); and/or
  • More susceptible to paranoia than most;
As one of those who commented on the article said:
"It does seem strange that as the ability to take photographs has become almost universal with cell phones, the interest in UFOs shown by the press has diminished proportionately." -- Dave Walmsley, Milton Keynes, UK
I concur with his statement, but I do not find it "strange." On the contrary, I fully expected that the more we learn about the universe, the less likely people would advocate the existence of intelligent extraterrestrial life visiting Earth.

Having said that, I am quite certain that there are UFOs, but only of terrestrial origin. People have seen many things they cannot fully explain, but that is a big leap to suggest that they are intelligent extraterrestrial life forms. Far too big of a leap for me to make.
This is what I think as well. I don't think they are being paranoid. That's too strong of a word and generally inaccurate. I would say that they have confirmational bias, in that they believe intelligent life more technologically advanced than our own is out there. So they assume, based on their worldview, that strange aircraft MUST be alien in origin. I'm of the belief that extraterrestrial life does exist, but in the form of microbes. If there is intelligent life near us, I'm assuming them to be about at the stage of development that Middle Ages Europe was in, at the latest or have Native American Pre-Columbian type societies. In my opinion, we are the most advanced species in our local neighborhood, and possibly within the nearest 200 light years.
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Old 10-11-2012, 11:45 PM
 
Location: Puerto Rico
22 posts, read 20,213 times
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Ha, we are the most advanced species? I couldn't disagree more. I do believe there is a host of intellegent life in this universe and we have been visited and not all extraterrestrial. I think some of the old flying machines mention in the old Hindu texts are still around.
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Old 10-12-2012, 02:38 AM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,825 posts, read 20,496,555 times
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Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
This is what I think as well. I don't think they are being paranoid. That's too strong of a word and generally inaccurate. I would say that they have confirmational bias, in that they believe intelligent life more technologically advanced than our own is out there. So they assume, based on their worldview, that strange aircraft MUST be alien in origin. I'm of the belief that extraterrestrial life does exist, but in the form of microbes. If there is intelligent life near us, I'm assuming them to be about at the stage of development that Middle Ages Europe was in, at the latest or have Native American Pre-Columbian type societies. In my opinion, we are the most advanced species in our local neighborhood, and possibly within the nearest 200 light years.
The paranoia comes in when they start believing, not that we have been visited by extraterrestrials, but rather because a great many of them also believe that the government knows all about it and there is a vast conspiracy to cover it up and/or keep it secret from the general public. The fact that they suddenly leap to the conclusion that this foreign (a.k.a. "alien") object must be extraterrestrial in origin only makes them delusional, not paranoid. Only those among them who also believe in some kind of vast conspiratorial government cover-up are both delusional AND paranoid.

I have no doubt there is intelligent life out there somewhere in the universe. The universe is too vast to believe otherwise. I certainly do not believe Earth has been visited, or that anyone (or "anything") even knows of Earth's existence.

With regard to life in general, I am pretty certain that we will find an abundance throughout the universe. As you say, it will be primarily microbial. After all, for more than 3 billion years on Earth there was only microbial life until the Cambrian "explosion" 540 million years ago. Complex life has only been around for one eighth of Earth's existence. That is a very narrow window, cosmologically speaking, and it requires a very special set of circumstances.

I would not quite yet rule out the possibility of an intelligent life form on nearby exoplanets just yet. Some of these nearby stars are billions of years older than the Sun. Which means an intelligent life form could have existed billions of years before us on some nearby world and then gone the way of the Dodo before we evolved from a single-cell organism.

The most recent pair of planets were found orbiting a close-binary pair, they are located in a cluster that is only 12 million years old. Which makes us 4.53 billion years more evolved than that baby extrasolar system.

We are going to find life in a wide variety of different evolutionary stages, but primarily microbial seven out of eight times.
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Old 10-12-2012, 07:51 PM
 
25,059 posts, read 23,605,993 times
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Originally Posted by datqueenbee View Post
Ha, we are the most advanced species? I couldn't disagree more. I do believe there is a host of intellegent life in this universe and we have been visited and not all extraterrestrial. I think some of the old flying machines mention in the old Hindu texts are still around.
Datqueenbee, please read the rest of my post instead of concentrating on a small part of it I said that we are probably the most advanced species within 200 light years. The Milky Way is an estimated, 100,000-120,000 light years in diameter. A distance of 200 light years from Earth is like the distance from Carolina to Canóvanas.
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Old 10-12-2012, 08:05 PM
 
25,059 posts, read 23,605,993 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glitch View Post
The paranoia comes in when they start believing, not that we have been visited by extraterrestrials, but rather because a great many of them also believe that the government knows all about it and there is a vast conspiracy to cover it up and/or keep it secret from the general public. The fact that they suddenly leap to the conclusion that this foreign (a.k.a. "alien") object must be extraterrestrial in origin only makes them delusional, not paranoid. Only those among them who also believe in some kind of vast conspiratorial government cover-up are both delusional AND paranoid.

I have no doubt there is intelligent life out there somewhere in the universe. The universe is too vast to believe otherwise. I certainly do not believe Earth has been visited, or that anyone (or "anything") even knows of Earth's existence.

With regard to life in general, I am pretty certain that we will find an abundance throughout the universe. As you say, it will be primarily microbial. After all, for more than 3 billion years on Earth there was only microbial life until the Cambrian "explosion" 540 million years ago. Complex life has only been around for one eighth of Earth's existence. That is a very narrow window, cosmologically speaking, and it requires a very special set of circumstances.

I would not quite yet rule out the possibility of an intelligent life form on nearby exoplanets just yet. Some of these nearby stars are billions of years older than the Sun. Which means an intelligent life form could have existed billions of years before us on some nearby world and then gone the way of the Dodo before we evolved from a single-cell organism.

The most recent pair of planets were found orbiting a close-binary pair, they are located in a cluster that is only 12 million years old. Which makes us 4.53 billion years more evolved than that baby extrasolar system.

We are going to find life in a wide variety of different evolutionary stages, but primarily microbial seven out of eight times.
Now that you clarified it, yeah I agree with you. I think the reason why the government keeps all this stuff very secret is because they are testing experimental equipment that needs to remain classified. It happens with ghostly encounters as well, I think. People see and hear what they want to see and hear, not what is necessarily reality. I try to take a balanced view of everything, and my conclusion is we're not being visited.

As for intelligent life (not necessarily technologically advanced, but beings capable of logical thought and reason) there's more than 100 billion stars in our galaxy alone. We're just barely scratching the surface. I think the fundamental question is, whether or not there is technologically advanced life in the galaxy, but are there any civilizations that at least have radio capability that are near us?

We also should take into account that our nearest stellar neighbors are almost as old as the sun, all 3 of the stars of Alpha Centauri. 2 of them are extremely similar to our sun, one is slightly more luminous, the other slightly dimmer.
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Old 10-12-2012, 09:22 PM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,825 posts, read 20,496,555 times
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Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
We also should take into account that our nearest stellar neighbors are almost as old as the sun, all 3 of the stars of Alpha Centauri. 2 of them are extremely similar to our sun, one is slightly more luminous, the other slightly dimmer.
True, and both Alpha Centauri AB have a slightly higher metallicity than Sol. A higher metallicity improves the odds of there being planets. They also estimate the age of Alpha Centauri AB to be between 5 and 6 billion years old, which makes it slightly older than our solar system. Unfortunately, the angle at which the two stars orbit each other means that any planet that may be in orbit around them would not visibly transit in front of their star from Earth's perspective. Additionally, we are not able to discern the wobble of a star with something as small as an Earth-sized rocky planet, yet. Therefore, I would not rule out the possibility of a planet or planets around either Alpha Centauri A or B or both just yet.

Calibration of the Alpha Centauri System: Metallicity and Age
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Old 10-12-2012, 09:26 PM
 
15,924 posts, read 17,648,084 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
Now that you clarified it, yeah I agree with you. I think the reason why the government keeps all this stuff very secret is because they are testing experimental equipment that needs to remain classified. It happens with ghostly encounters as well, I think. People see and hear what they want to see and hear, not what is necessarily reality. I try to take a balanced view of everything, and my conclusion is we're not being visited.
Amazing that after 70 years there still is no concrete accredited information on this secret government testing.....

There is no way in heck that not one single American (or alien) working on this secret project hasn't provided conclusive proof that alien spacecraft are being reverse engineered... Sorry, Independence Day is not a documentary.....

Fuzzy pictures, conjecture, conspiracy theories, assumptions and technobabble just don't hack it....

This crap about aliens helped out mankind building the pyramids, the Mayans and Aztecs etc etc etc sure makes humans look like idiots that can't invent anything... Or that there weren't previous advanced (human, native) civilizations at one time populating the Earth....
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