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Old 11-04-2016, 01:47 PM
 
Location: Out West
23,614 posts, read 17,405,637 times
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Jeez, even in the Space forum people are hostile.

By the way:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine View Post
Very cool, thanks. I thoroughly enjoyed that.
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Old 11-04-2016, 02:17 PM
 
5,203 posts, read 8,204,697 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
I watched the video that said the sun is moving through space and dragging us in it's wake at a certain rate of speed. So, what were the people who made the video using as a reference? Can you use the same reference to answer the question of if anything in space is stationary?
I understand what you mean about "the sun is moving through space and dragging us in it's wake at a certain rate of speed." That's one way to visualize it, but probably not the most accurate way to describe it. The planets are gravitationally bound to the Sun.

The reference being used of the Sun moving through the galaxy are the stars. Although stars may seem stationary from our point of view from Earth, they are in motion. The movements seem very slight because of the vast distances, but their movement in the galaxy are detectable. One of the reasons why it seems so slight is because not only because are the stars orbiting the galaxy, but so is our solar system. In addition, not only do the planets orbit the Sun, but the solar system itself wobbles (oscillates) above and below the orbital plane of the galaxy, sort of like horses on a merry-go-round that go up and down.

Previously, the solar system was thought of as a "pancake" configuration traveling parallel through the galaxy. However, that view raises an awkward problem. It would mean that the Earth (and other planets) would have to travel significantly faster than the Sun for half a year as the Sun travels through the galaxy, then travel slower than the Sun for the remaining half year, then speed up again, etc.

The vortex model shows the planets in a spiraling orbit "chasing" the Sun. That would suggest that the planets are not aligned on an even plane with the galactic center, but rather that the planets are on a spiraling path following the Sun. The planetary paths of the planets remain relatively stable with the Sun because of the strong gravitational effect the Sun has on the planets. Or at least that's the way I understand it.

I don't think there's anything in the universe that's truly stationary. Everything is in motion. Without using very powerful and sensitive instruments, it would seem that stars and galaxies appear to be motionless. It's estimated that the Sun is moving around the galaxy at a speed of about 483,000 miles per hour. That's almost half a million mph. However, we have to keep in mind how these things are in terms of scales of size and of distance in both space and time.

Sol's Motion Around Milky Way Detected

earth - What mechanism causes oscillations of the solar system's orbit about the galactic plane? - Astronomy Stack Exchange
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Old 11-04-2016, 03:46 PM
 
Location: USA
16,296 posts, read 8,435,298 times
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Thanks NightBazaar.

I never have done well with wrapping my head around this kind of stuff, so I appreciate all the help I can get.
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Old 11-04-2016, 06:48 PM
 
28,607 posts, read 40,588,688 times
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Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow View Post
Jeez, even in the Space forum people are hostile.
There are a number of posters here that like to think they are smarter than everyone else.

They are easily spotted.
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Old 11-04-2016, 07:35 PM
 
Location: Somewhere in northern Alabama
18,514 posts, read 55,435,808 times
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Originally Posted by Tek_Freek View Post
There are a number of posters here that like to think they are smarter than everyone else.

They are easily spotted.
I'm not smarter. I just ask a S**Tload more questions and try to understand what the answers are.

Red shift occurs and appears to be exactly the same in all directions. You can interpret that as our having the one in a bazillion chance of being in the center of the universe, that the universe has no center, or that ...
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Old 11-04-2016, 09:50 PM
 
5,203 posts, read 8,204,697 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pleroo View Post
Thanks NightBazaar.

I never have done well with wrapping my head around this kind of stuff, so I appreciate all the help I can get.
Here's another animation that shows the concept of the solar system in motion. This one also suggests that the Sun itself spirals as it travels around the galaxy. The Sun is thought to move around as it orbits, but whether it does so in a spiraling motion is anyone's guess. It's an interesting thought though. I think it's reasonable to consider that the Sun probably isn't on a straight path, and can move in and out of the galactic arms as well as bounce up and down the galactic plane. It could potentially be affected by the gravitational tugging of other stars, dust and gas clouds, as it comes within range. That could be enough to somewhat alter it's path.

It's worth keeping in mind that these videos are just animations showing the "paths" of the planets in relation to the Sun. Tails are added to emphasize the trails. Obviously there are no trails or paths like that. It's also worth noting that a part of the solar system is the heliosheath, which surrounds the solar system, and that there is also Kuiper Belt which houses short term comets and minor planets like Pluto, etc., and beyond that is the Oort Cloud which is thought to be the source of long term comets. The relationship of the Sun and the planets we know about still orbit the Sun with relatively stable orbits on a somewhat flat plane. The exceptions to that are objects with highly eccentric orbits like Pluto and comets.

The Sun obviously orbits the galaxy, and the planets follow the Sun. Taking that into consideration, then it stands to reason that there's a pretty interesting pattern of motion going on with the solar system. It takes around 225 to 250 million years for the solar system to make a single orbit around the galaxy. That's a long time.

Now that I think about it, the Sun does wobble a bit so maybe it could be thought of as traveling on a spiral path.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4V-ooITrws

Last edited by NightBazaar; 11-04-2016 at 09:59 PM..
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Old 11-04-2016, 10:33 PM
 
Location: Heart of Dixie
12,446 posts, read 11,231,973 times
Reputation: 28225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tek_Freek View Post
There are a number of posters here that like to think they are smarter than everyone else.

They are easily spotted.
It's not the smarter ones who are the easiest to spot.

BTW - you are the one who posited an absurdity and then suggested I was in need of further education on the subject. I'm quite knowledgeable when it comes to the theories of special and general relativity. Some of us actually apply those theories in our daily work.
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Old 11-06-2016, 02:27 PM
 
28,607 posts, read 40,588,688 times
Reputation: 37262
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirt Grinder View Post
It's not the smarter ones who are the easiest to spot.

BTW - you are the one who posited an absurdity and then suggested I was in need of further education on the subject. I'm quite knowledgeable when it comes to the theories of special and general relativity. Some of us actually apply those theories in our daily work.
An absurdity? So you are saying that the universe has no center?

Quote:
Some of us actually apply those theories in our daily work
And thank you for supporting my comment.

Quote:
There are a number of posters here that like to think they are smarter than everyone else.

They are easily spotted.
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Old 11-06-2016, 02:28 PM
 
28,607 posts, read 40,588,688 times
Reputation: 37262
Quote:
Originally Posted by harry chickpea View Post
I'm not smarter. I just ask a S**Tload more questions and try to understand what the answers are.

Red shift occurs and appears to be exactly the same in all directions. You can interpret that as our having the one in a bazillion chance of being in the center of the universe, that the universe has no center, or that ...
You have never, and will never, be in that list. You have an entirely different attitude and approach.
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Old 11-09-2016, 05:59 AM
 
Location: Riachella, Victoria, Australia
359 posts, read 563,567 times
Reputation: 378
The sun is moving. Einstein's theories are so junk.
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