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It isn't expanding into anything as I understand it because even empty space doesn't exist outside of the universe. When the universe began at the big bang time and space came into existence. I also get a headache just thinking about it because we're left with so many unknowns and I'm not sure we'll ever figure it out.
I guess based off this link I should have said "stretching" instead of "expanding".
Reason number 1,487,878,561 that I'm not an astronomer..
Lol. You should see my cosmology class, i came 5 minutes late yesterday and already they had explained why the current view is that universe in neither infinite nor static based on Olbers paradox. It took me a good hour of reading before it finally sinked in. Well at least the red-shift is easy to calculate
This is a fun thread. So many possibilities. I was reading this site the other day. Fascinating position by a team of astronomers, astrophysics professors, and a host of scientists who built a progressive creation model to explain the origin of the universe and the origin of humanity.
Hehe i enjoy this thread too, space is incredibly fascinating and those who have studied it in the past such a Hubble were geniuses who thought years ahead of everyone else
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paleoroundtable
I was reading this site the other day. Fascinating position by a team of astronomers, astrophysics professors, and a host of scientists who built a progressive creation model to explain the origin of the universe and the origin of humanity.
I remember i used to visit that website sometime ago. I stopped after i noticed that a big chunk of it was absolutely crap and i really hate being lied to
Basically what they're talking about is a four-dimensional universe. You have a universe that is defined by length, width, and depth. In other words "3-d". The fourth dimension would be duration, or time, as we talk about it more commonly. This makes up a four dimensional universe.
I would feel more comfortable with a model of the universe that includes the “subjective observer”.
Without the observer.. the universe.. somehow.. seems incomplete.
How come he\she always gets left out of physics.. ?
A conspiracy.. maybe..:-)
To me.. consciousness seems to be an additional dimension that our universe has.. since consciousness is not occurring with in the framework of physical space-time.
We are made much more aware of this when we dream.. and experience.. imaginary space-time.. for ourselves.
Then.. when completely unconscious.. we experience the NOTHINGNESS.. (an absence of space-time).. but we wake up nevertheless.
And.. when the alarm clock goes off in the morning.. something comes out of a nothingness.. on a regular basis.
Existence seems to be in a state of paradox.. we are contained in the universe.. while the universe also is contained within us.
After all.. which is “realer”.. the universe outside us.. existing in past time… or the mental image of it we have.. that exists in the present..?
Another thing to consider is.. how much of our sensory data gets modified by the brain.. ?
And.. isn’t consciousness.. by its very nature.. imaginary.. ?
I’ll pass on four dimensions..
Because what I experience.. makes me feel it’s not complete.. with out me..;-)
---
"And while engineers need the imaginary number to analyse electrical waves, physicists need it to calculate the fundamental forces that govern our Universe via quantum mechanics.
And, most bizarrely of all, time might have an imaginary dimension, which might explain how time started. The Big Bang gave birth to our Universe some 15 billion years ago. It was every mother's dream birth, taking less than a second for all time, matter and energy to be born, with no need for an epidural. But if the Big Bang marks the beginning of time and the beginning of matter, what was there before it? How could time just start?
Einstein's classical general theory of relativity linked together time with the three spatial dimensions we are all familiar with (up - down, left - right, and in - out), creating a four dimensional 'space-time' in which time can move forwards only. A brilliant theory, but one that comes a cropper when applied to the creation of the Universe.
But invoke quantum theory and a dollop of imaginary time and things begin to make sense ... at least to cosmologists. Imaginary time is measured in imaginary numbers and unlike real time, it can move backwards and forwards like an extra spatial dimension. Apparently, this gives the Big Bang something to start from."
Imaginary Number (http://www.simonsingh.net/i.html - broken link)
I would feel more comfortable with a model of the universe that includes the “subjective observer”.
Without the observer.. the universe.. somehow.. seems incomplete.
How come he\she always gets left out of physics.. ?
A conspiracy.. maybe..:-)
To me.. consciousness seems to be an additional dimension that our universe has.. since consciousness is not occurring with in the framework of physical space-time.
We are made much more aware of this when we dream.. and experience.. imaginary space-time.. for ourselves.
Then.. when completely unconscious.. we experience the NOTHINGNESS.. (an absence of space-time).. but we wake up nevertheless.
And.. when the alarm clock goes off in the morning.. something comes out of a nothingness.. on a regular basis.
Existence seems to be in a state of paradox.. we are contained in the universe.. while the universe also is contained within us.
After all.. which is “realer”.. the universe outside us.. existing in past time… or the mental image of it we have.. that exists in the present..?
Another thing to consider is.. how much of our sensory data gets modified by the brain.. ?
And.. isn’t consciousness.. by its very nature.. imaginary.. ?
I’ll pass on four dimensions..
Because what I experience.. makes me feel it’s not complete.. with out me..;-)
---
"And while engineers need the imaginary number to analyse electrical waves, physicists need it to calculate the fundamental forces that govern our Universe via quantum mechanics.
And, most bizarrely of all, time might have an imaginary dimension, which might explain how time started. The Big Bang gave birth to our Universe some 15 billion years ago. It was every mother's dream birth, taking less than a second for all time, matter and energy to be born, with no need for an epidural. But if the Big Bang marks the beginning of time and the beginning of matter, what was there before it? How could time just start?
Einstein's classical general theory of relativity linked together time with the three spatial dimensions we are all familiar with (up - down, left - right, and in - out), creating a four dimensional 'space-time' in which time can move forwards only. A brilliant theory, but one that comes a cropper when applied to the creation of the Universe.
But invoke quantum theory and a dollop of imaginary time and things begin to make sense ... at least to cosmologists. Imaginary time is measured in imaginary numbers and unlike real time, it can move backwards and forwards like an extra spatial dimension. Apparently, this gives the Big Bang something to start from."
Imaginary Number (http://www.simonsingh.net/i.html - broken link)
I did a search on the net.. after posting last night.. to see.. if I could find anything about how physics dealt with the problem of consciousness..
And I think I've found a friend..:-)
Penrose is making exactly the same point as I was making it seems..
“A scientific world-view which does not profoundly come to terms with the problem of conscious minds can have no serious pretensions of completeness. Consciousness is part of our universe, so any physical theory which makes no proper place for it falls fundamentally short of providing a genuine description of the world. I would maintain that there is yet no physical, biological, or computational theory that comes very close to explaining our consciousness ...”
See I want to know what the universe is expanding into..
nothing? Basically.. whats outside the universe?
See picture for scientific map.
well from my understanding, the universe is expanding into itself. We can see the "edge" of the universe, but that's because we can only see so far. And that is limited by the age of the universe and the nature of light.
so in short the universe is expanding into more universe.
I did a search on the net.. after posting last night.. to see.. if I could find anything about how physics dealt with the problem of consciousness..
And I think I've found a friend..:-)
Penrose is making exactly the same point as I was making it seems..
“A scientific world-view which does not profoundly come to terms with the problem of conscious minds can have no serious pretensions of completeness. Consciousness is part of our universe, so any physical theory which makes no proper place for it falls fundamentally short of providing a genuine description of the world. I would maintain that there is yet no physical, biological, or computational theory that comes very close to explaining our consciousness ...”
Roger Penrose
I think Mr. Penrose needs to study a little more neuroscience to explain how a thought works. Not that I'm a professional or anything, but it's pretty common knowledge that a thought is a product of the brain.
I think Mr. Penrose needs to study a little more neuroscience to explain how a thought works. Not that I'm a professional or anything, but it's pretty common knowledge that a thought is a product of the brain.
yh, i respect the man's ability in both mathematics and physics(sp deailing with black holes) but he seems to turn senile when asked if he thought that robots could eventually think like humans do. Oh well, i guess i should still keep some reservations until ive finished both "the emperors new mind" and its sequel(might take a while)
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And, most bizarrely of all..
