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Old 11-19-2017, 08:52 PM
 
13 posts, read 5,249 times
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without having to wait for light to travel from Point A to Point B ....

If this were possible hypothetically imaginatively speaking,

I think if I’m in a spaceship traveling towards another star in a direction away from earth at a speed of near 86% of the speed of light (Lorentz factor 2) according to an earth observer, and all could communicate without waiting for light to make the trip from Point A to Point B and back to transmit info back and forth,

Then here’s How cause-effect could play out.

3 reference frames:

1) Traveler:
I would retrieve info from the other star at a time farther into the future than if I were positioned on earth. However, time would appear to run slower on the other star’s clock.

I would retrieve info from earth at a time more into the past than if were positioned on earth. I could communicate directly to an earlier earth where its time would appear to run slower.


2) Earth:
I would retrieve info from the other star at an earlier time in its history than would the traveler. Time on the other star would appear to run in perfect synch with earth time.

I would retriever info from the traveler at an earlier time in the traveler’s history than if I were on board the ship. Time on board the ship would appear to run slower.

3) The other star:
I would retrieve info from earth at a time farther into the future than if I were traveling on the ship.
Earth time would appear to run in perfect sync with time on the other star.

I would retrieve info from the traveler at an earlier time in the traveler’s history than if I were on board the ship. Time on board the ship would appear to run slower.

So now, supposing signals bypassed a need to travel at light speed:

Lets say all 3 sent signals simultaneously to each other


Earth and the other star would instantly get each other’s signals

Traveler would have already seen the other star’s signal before earth saw it.

Traveler could then communicate a second signal to an earlier earth that never saw any signal yet,

Yet neither Earth nor the other star would have gotten any of the traveler’s signals by this time but earlier earth would be in full communication with spaceship which means the other star would see this from viewing earth instantly.

So basically If traveler on ship could communicate with what is instantly observed without waiting for lights speed lag time to slow the message deliveries, then cause and effect would be reverberated and past-future in a circular reference to each other. Signals would be in an unclear sequence of chronology.

Last edited by EricS575; 11-19-2017 at 09:19 PM..
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Old 11-19-2017, 09:51 PM
 
13 posts, read 5,249 times
Reputation: 32
Earth’s clock is behind according to Traveler

Traveler’s clock is behind according to Earth

Other star’s clock is ahead according to Traveler

Traveler’s clock is behind according to other star

Earth and other star’s clock are in perfect synch
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Old 11-20-2017, 12:44 PM
 
Location: Somewhere in northern Alabama
16,702 posts, read 50,769,094 times
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Mmm. Interesting speculations.

A while back I ran across a program that played upon a similar theme and presented it as a possible form of time travel. If that were true, then it would be a clear confirmation of a predetermined universe. IF you can positively see into a future and that future happens, then everything is immutable. To me, that appears to be a logical error.

In point of fact, information is transferred between entangled atoms at a speed that is AT LEAST 14,000 times the speed of light (in a vacuum). On a very small scale, your experiment already is in existence but not yet consciously observed by humans.

If we consider time as local, what we observe is not a universal time. That is a flaw in most musings, including yours and those of the program.

An event occurs on a planet around a star that is 10,000 light years away. There are a group of entangled atoms on that planet and on Earth that comprise a communication system. The information about the event is transmitted through the entanglement, so that a scientist on Earth immediately knows what will otherwise only be observable 10,000 years from now.

He is not looking 10,000 light years into the future, any more than a telegraph operator in New York in 1900 was looking into the future when he got a message from San Fransisco that would otherwise have taken three days by train. What might be confusing to some is the shorthand when we say that light from a star is from 10,000 years in the past.

In using the concepts of past/present/future the present seems to come from the past and flow into the future. That isn't strictly true. There have been proof-positive experiments that show the future can have an effect on both the present and the near past. Although the variations may be incredibly tiny, the inference is that neither future nor past is completely fixed in what we perceive as reality. I like the possibilities in that.
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Old 11-20-2017, 01:31 PM
 
5,079 posts, read 4,305,486 times
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I remember as a young child looking across a quarter mile expanse of water and watching a man chop wood. At the top of his swing, I would hear the sound of the ax biting into the log. At the bottom of his swing, I could see the ax contact the log and wood chips flying from the log.

That's what faster than light communication is like. My eyes see the ax chop from the light waves projecting from the event, and my ears hear the sound waves projecting from from the event. My eyes didn't see the future - my ears heard the past.
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