U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Science and Technology > Space
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 04-17-2018, 02:16 AM
 
Location: PRC
3,231 posts, read 3,360,329 times
Reputation: 2950

Advertisements

1) Well, you might look up Neil deGrasse Tyson and find out why he should be believed, what awards and what degrees he has and whether his background makes him a credible person.
This wikipedia makes it sound as if he is.
Space.com if you dont like Wikipedia
Huffington Post

2) I completely agree. Six times is a lot of visits to a place which is uninteresting and un-science worthy. UNLESS there is something there which highly motivates and we all know what are two big things which motivate - 2x 'M's, money and military.

The astronauts are often a bunch of guys who are past test pilots or else they have the same kind of qualities as those test pilots. Basically, you never know what will happen on a space flight and you need to be able to think on your feet, to act sensibly and quickly if necessary and to be able to keep secrets in case they discover something strange. Even if they just went into orbit around the Earth, I still think they are pretty courageous guys.

 
Old 04-17-2018, 06:25 AM
 
252 posts, read 212,627 times
Reputation: 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
1) Well, you might look up Neil deGrasse Tyson and find out why he should be believed, what awards and what degrees he has and whether his background makes him a credible person.
This wikipedia makes it sound as if he is.
Space.com if you dont like Wikipedia
Huffington Post
I doubt he has a degree in the field of determing if it is more "difficult to fake than it would be to just to go there". What does he know? All his evidence would be based on an alleged moon landing which is what this thread is arguing about.
 
Old 04-17-2018, 01:21 PM
 
33,708 posts, read 17,275,623 times
Reputation: 18491
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Yard View Post
I doubt he has a degree in the field of determing if it is more "difficult to fake than it would be to just to go there".
That's a bit rich from the people who can't come up with anyone with a relevant degree pointing out why Apollo couldn't have succeeded.

Quote:
What does he know?
Astrophysics.

Quote:
All his evidence would be based on an alleged moon landing which is what this thread is arguing about.
We had a solid body of knowledge on the physics and the technical challenges involved before Apollo. Unless you want to go down the road where pretty much every space mission ever has been faked.
 
Old 04-17-2018, 11:16 PM
 
Location: PRC
3,231 posts, read 3,360,329 times
Reputation: 2950
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Yard
I doubt he has a degree in the field of determing if it is more "difficult to fake than it would be to just to go there". What does he know? All his evidence would be based on an alleged moon landing which is what this thread is arguing about.
It is an opinion - just like yours is. Why cant he have an opinion about things? He probably has more knowledge than we (you and I) do in areas that he has these certificates, degrees, qualifications, etc but he may not have knowledge in other areas and we might. However, we are into the realms of opinions here and he happens to be on the radio or TV more than we do, so his influence is going to be greater.

Really, you have to realise that there are going to be people who you do not agree with and just let it go and not be so intense. You cannot influence everyone to believe in things you believe in and I am not sure that would be much fun either - to live in a world where everyone agreed with us. I, for one, would find it rather boring to live in that kind of a world.
 
Old 04-20-2018, 12:59 AM
 
Location: midwest
1,446 posts, read 1,057,275 times
Reputation: 897
I searched this thread for the word "suspect" and no one used it.

Believing, Suspecting and Knowing are three different things. Most people do not seem to use the word suspect very much.

I was not on the surface of the Moon in July of 1969. There is no way for me to KNOW. But I have never encountered any people claiming that this was a hoax, saying that the Apollo 8 orbit of the Moon was a hoax also. So I am supposed to believe that men could get to the Moon and orbit as a precursor but then could not land and get back to the orbiter?

I think for some reason some people prefer not to believe it could be done. I have seen someone claim that the Moon is hollow, so I figure he must have gone there and done some serious geological research. ROFL

I SUSPECT the Moon landing occurred and that it is a total waste of time to argue with people that prefer to BELIEVE that it did not.
 
Old 04-20-2018, 03:26 AM
 
Location: PRC
3,231 posts, read 3,360,329 times
Reputation: 2950
The point is that different people have different criteria for belief. Some like to have the word of a reputable scientist before they subscribe to a certain belief, some like to weigh up the "evidence" for themselves, and some just like the mystery of it all, and of course there are all stances in between and outside of these.

As far as a hollow Moon goes, there is that comment made by someone that it "rang like a bell" which suggests it may be hollow-ish rather than solid, there is also some evidence that the density is not the same as the Earth which might also add weight to that hollow-ish argument. Then there are the reasons for crashing all those bits of spaceship into the Moon. Why do that multiple times rather than just send it out into space? I am sure there are some reasons why but the problem is now - the government and NASA have lied to us before and trust has been lost. The dodgy behaviour of the authorities and some of their representatives continue to give occasional reasons to mistrust.

For the Moon hoax question, for me there are a 2 or 3 issues I have with some images and video as well as the fact that NASA has "lost" some of its priceless historical data. There is that image of the strange astronaut as a reflection in the visor and there is the time (AS17?) when one astronaut is helping the other to stand up and it appears as if he is attached to a line which helps lift him up to the standing position. As I say, everyone needs different levels of 'proof' for them to believe.

Moon landings are so expensive that it is unlikely any individual is going there anytime soon so no-one KNOWS apart from a few select military people. They get their salary from the government and get their pension from the government too.

I think there is a huge difference in logistics between sending a spaceship around the Moon and landing and taking off again from the surface. the dangers and organisation is vastly different although obviously both events have to arrive at the Moon and orbit it.
 
Old 04-20-2018, 11:30 AM
 
33,708 posts, read 17,275,623 times
Reputation: 18491
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
Moon landings are so expensive that it is unlikely any individual is going there anytime soon so no-one KNOWS apart from a few select military people. They get their salary from the government and get their pension from the government too.
Thing is, tens of thousands of engineers and scientists who are not and never were government employees were involved in developing the technology and analyzing the results. You wouldn't have to fake your landing data well enough to fool the public, you'd have to fool thousands of the the leading experts in their respective fields.

The people who spent years of their lives building, say, a lunar lander - they're not going to take a hand-wave and "oh, it worked just fine, good job". They'll be poring over telemetry and looking at photos and trying to verify what worked and what didn't, which design margins can be improved, that sort of thing. (Have you ever met an engineer? They tinker.) In fact, most components were improved over the life of the program.

Geologists with sudden access to lunar samples aren't on the government payroll, either, and they'd effin' love to publish a paper on how the lunar samples aren't from the moon at all. That's "universities will fight to have you lead up their geology department" material.

Quote:
I think there is a huge difference in logistics between sending a spaceship around the Moon and landing and taking off again from the surface. the dangers and organisation is vastly different although obviously both events have to arrive at the Moon and orbit it.
And again, we are up against the question: Has anyone with aerospace engineering credentials pointed to a component that couldn't have worked?
 
Old 04-20-2018, 03:30 PM
 
Location: midwest
1,446 posts, read 1,057,275 times
Reputation: 897
James Burke The other side of the moon 1979

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puWbQ1b-ljU

Interesting documentary, never saw it before. has those funny VCR distortions now and then. LOL

Last edited by psikeyhackr; 04-20-2018 at 03:53 PM..
 
Old 05-03-2018, 11:15 AM
 
252 posts, read 212,627 times
Reputation: 252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
Thing is, tens of thousands of engineers and scientists who are not and never were government employees were involved in developing the technology and analyzing the results. You wouldn't have to fake your landing data well enough to fool the public, you'd have to fool thousands of the the leading experts in their respective fields.

They were most likely working with the project on a "need to know basis" and probably didn't have access to all information.Look up https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan_Project more than 130.000 people worked on developing an atomic bomb, still it was all kept secret for a long time.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
Geologists with sudden access to lunar samples aren't on the government payroll, either, and they'd effin' love to publish a paper on how the lunar samples aren't from the moon at all.
If a long time univerisity professor with a high edjucation and experience in his/her field all of a sudden
would question these samples they would probably lose their jobs and never get a new one. That is how power works. Probably they wouldn't risk it.
 
Old 05-03-2018, 11:33 AM
 
33,708 posts, read 17,275,623 times
Reputation: 18491
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Yard View Post
They were most likely working with the project on a "need to know basis" and probably didn't have access to all information.Look up https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manhattan_Project more than 130.000 people worked on developing an atomic bomb, still it was all kept secret for a long time.
Nonsense. This was not the Manhattan project, the Apollo engineers knew exactly what they were working on. The factory workers building the craft knew what they were working on. (The astronauts would visit the plants, because - literally - it increased the build quality to a measurable degree.) Every bit and piece of Apollo is documented, and still - nobody with credentials at all has been able to point out something that couldn't have worked as advertised.

Quote:
If a long time univerisity professor with a high edjucation and experience in his/her field all of a sudden would question these samples they would probably lose their jobs and never get a new one. That is how power works. Probably they wouldn't risk it.
Are you unfamiliar with academia? Overturning paradigms is how you get fame, Nobel prizes and advancement.

So far what you have is prefaced with "most likely", probably", and not one hard piece of evidence.

Has anyone with aerospace engineering credentials pointed to a component that couldn't have worked?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Science and Technology > Space
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:07 AM.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top