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Old 05-24-2018, 03:31 PM
 
5,203 posts, read 8,207,066 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
It's mostly not a matter of the craft - Apollo wasn't specifically designed for radiation protection. As with all radiation exposure, you find the zone with the lowest intensity (the belts aren't uniform) and you minimize the time you spend there- in this case, by going fast.

Apollo was going like gangbusters, because they had to get to lunar orbit. The Shuttle didn't carry the requisite fuel for that sort of orbital change. Te van Allen belts aren't a place to linger.
Granted, the Van Allen Belts is not an area where one would want to linger any longer than necessary. Speed was important, but so was the trajectory. In addition, the Apollo capsule was shielded to help repel particles to protect the astronauts. Here are some links that might help give a better understanding how the astronauts got through the Van Allen Belts and survived.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Al...r_space_travel

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jillian.../#373b326f8d62

https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/f...I_Problem7.pdf



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tZs02kxTdg

 
Old 05-24-2018, 04:09 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post
Granted, the Van Allen Belts is not an area where one would want to linger any longer than necessary. Speed was important, but so was the trajectory.
No debate there.
 
Old 05-24-2018, 10:06 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanAdventurer View Post
I consider the term "staged" to be more accurate.

On the contrary, I believe it is claimed the furthest anyone has been from Earth since the alleged Moon landing missions was somewhere around 350-400 miles out during some of the Space Shuttle missions in the late 90's. This is pefectly believable considering the Van Allen radiation belts are said to start around 1000 miles out.
"Staged" is just another way of saying the Moon missions were a hoax and never happened because of the intense radiation of the Van Allen Belts. They either went to the Moon or they didn't. The Space Shuttles as well as the Space Stations were designed for low Earth orbiting which is below the Van Allen Belts.

See the links and video in Post #301 to better understand how the Apollo Moon Mission crafts were able to get through the Van Allen Belts. The trajectory bypassed the inner belts and briefly passed through the weaker outer belt. Although the astronauts were still exposed to some radiation, the Apollo capsules were shielded to reduce radiation, and they didn't pass through the Van Allen Belts at the widest points which would be somewhat above the equator. Instead, they traveled near the magnetic poles of the Earth where the Belts are narrower.
 
Old 05-25-2018, 03:42 AM
 
Location: PRC
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Quote:
...the Apollo capsules were shielded to reduce radiation, and they didn't pass through the Van Allen Belts...
I understood that shielding needed to be really quite thick to shield cosmic radiation, and electronics as well as the astronauts themselves were in danger of being radiated. When I had x-ray therapy a long time ago, I had a thick lead vest put across my chest and we are talking about the 1960s here so I dont think there were special light-weight radiation shields available then.

"Reducing" radiation and radiation hardening may not be enough when any stray cosmic ray could knock out an electronic component in a circuit board. The astronauts reported they still got 'pixie dust' images when the radiation hit the inner surface of their eyeballs.
 
Old 05-25-2018, 11:35 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
I understood that shielding needed to be really quite thick to shield cosmic radiation, and electronics as well as the astronauts themselves were in danger of being radiated. When I had x-ray therapy a long time ago, I had a thick lead vest put across my chest and we are talking about the 1960s here so I dont think there were special light-weight radiation shields available then.

"Reducing" radiation and radiation hardening may not be enough when any stray cosmic ray could knock out an electronic component in a circuit board. The astronauts reported they still got 'pixie dust' images when the radiation hit the inner surface of their eyeballs.
X-rays and cosmic radiation are different beasts. The risk in the outer Van Allen belt (the inner was simply avoided) is particle radiation, and for once, nature works in the engineer's favor: Particle radiation is best blocked by lighter materials - in fact, heavy metal is a bad idea. Today's preferred material is polyethylene, lots of hydrogen atoms. Water would work as well. The command module was mostly built to survive the forces of re-entry, but its aluminum outer skin and thermal insulation worked quite well against particle radiation.

And 1960s electronics were nothing if not robust. Magnetic-core memory isn't about to glitch due to random cosmic radiation. (The Falcon Heavy, with its modern integrated circuits, was ironically much more vulnerable. It was a major nail-biter if the 2nd stage electronics would work after its coast thought the Van Allen belts.)
 
Old 05-25-2018, 12:53 PM
 
7,147 posts, read 3,904,178 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanAdventurer View Post
I consider the term "staged" to be more accurate.

On the contrary, I believe it is claimed the furthest anyone has been from Earth since the alleged Moon landing missions was somewhere around 350-400 miles out during some of the Space Shuttle missions in the late 90's. This is pefectly believable considering the Van Allen radiation belts are said to start around 1000 miles out.
Ah yes, the whole Van Allen Belt radiation issue. Note how the belt radiates:



Not much at the poles, right? Remember how Earth is tilted?

It is quite possible to go from the Earth to the Moon and back and experience minimal radiation from the belts.
 
Old 05-25-2018, 12:55 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBazaar View Post
Granted, the Van Allen Belts is not an area where one would want to linger any longer than necessary. Speed was important, but so was the trajectory. In addition, the Apollo capsule was shielded to help repel particles to protect the astronauts. Here are some links that might help give a better understanding how the astronauts got through the Van Allen Belts and survived.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Al...r_space_travel

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jillian.../#373b326f8d62

https://www.nasa.gov/sites/default/f...I_Problem7.pdf



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tZs02kxTdg
I missed this before I posted. Thanks
 
Old 05-25-2018, 01:16 PM
 
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Also with respect to the radiation, why were the tortoises, mealworms, flies and plants that preceded the Apollo missions outside earth orbit not killed?

Many don’t realize that Zond 5 sent the first earth creatures around the moon and safely back to earth, 3 months before Apollo 8.

While I don’t expect the Soviets to have been forthcoming at the time, they certainly would have shared information post-1991. Nothing countermands the fact that these organisms safely returned home after a trip through the Van Allen Belts.
 
Old 05-25-2018, 07:58 PM
 
33,755 posts, read 17,290,860 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markjames68 View Post
Also with respect to the radiation, why were the tortoises, mealworms, flies and plants that preceded the Apollo missions outside earth orbit not killed?

Many don’t realize that Zond 5 sent the first earth creatures around the moon and safely back to earth, 3 months before Apollo 8.

While I don’t expect the Soviets to have been forthcoming at the time, they certainly would have shared information post-1991. Nothing countermands the fact that these organisms safely returned home after a trip through the Van Allen Belts.
Speaking for myself, Apollo hoaxers have provided me with the motivation to get into the science and engineering of Apollo - and it's ridiculously impressive. Every time someone says something like "What about the Van Allen belts?", you find that dozens of very smart people spent decades of their lives mapping out the Van Allen belts, planning trajectories, building probes - and in the process, they'd measure, gather, catalogue, fold, spindle and mutilate every conceivable bit of knowledge about the Van Allen belts.
 
Old 05-25-2018, 08:21 PM
 
7,147 posts, read 3,904,178 times
Reputation: 6696
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
Speaking for myself, Apollo hoaxers have provided me with the motivation to get into the science and engineering of Apollo - and it's ridiculously impressive. Every time someone says something like "What about the Van Allen belts?", you find that dozens of very smart people spent decades of their lives mapping out the Van Allen belts, planning trajectories, building probes - and in the process, they'd measure, gather, catalogue, fold, spindle and mutilate every conceivable bit of knowledge about the Van Allen belts.
Exactly. Otherwise what were the tens of thousands of NASA employees and contractors doing all those years?

If hoax believers would spent a few hours doing simple research and open their mind they would see how possible things are. What makes it a reality is a lot of resources.

To me the biggest shame is cutting NASA so far back starting in the 70’s and not giving them a clear mission. But I guess the various planetary probes and rovers are fake too as the electronics couldn’t survive the Van Allen Belts
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