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Old 07-09-2018, 06:04 PM
 
Location: PRC
3,250 posts, read 3,365,783 times
Reputation: 2950

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So...
I point out he has good credentials and experience with working for the government in defence contracts.

I ask for references from you for your statement his theories are incorrect, and what do you do? Leave.

When the water gets too hot and you apparently cannot back up your opinions and arguments with even some references you have to bail out. At least I have defended what I said with some kind of logic.

If I need to change my opinions about this guy and his theory, then show me with reasoned arguments why I should stop defending his ideas.

 
Old 07-09-2018, 06:46 PM
 
33,821 posts, read 17,312,451 times
Reputation: 18556
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
The guy who wrote the paper IS A PLASMA PHYSICIST who published papers (as any scientist who wants to stay current has to do) and worked for the government on defence contracts.
No offense to Dr. Brandenburg but it seems to me, at least, that these aren't exactly overlapping fields of expertise. The physics of nuclear explosions and the ensuing fallout products is a lifetime study in and of itself, as is the study of atmospheric conditions on other planets.

That being said, Xe-129 isn't listed as a byproduct of a nuclear explosion anywhere I can find. It's a stable isotope, brought forth by the decay of I-129, and I-129 isn't very active - half-life of 16 million years. And yet, Xe-129 being a byproduct of a nuclear explosion seemed to be the cornerstone of the argument.

Here's the abstract for an article laying out an explanation based on the different chemical properties of Iodine vs. Xenon, and why Mars' ration would be very different from that of Earth's. Although I will admit the explanation takes more chemistry that I have on hand here and now.

https://www.nature.com/articles/352697a0
 
Old 07-10-2018, 07:59 AM
 
12,333 posts, read 3,249,816 times
Reputation: 8207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
Who's "they" who hold such control over what movies are made?
The powers that be is who I was referring to.

A good example of this is back in recent decades, in changing public opinion on interracial and homosexual relationships/ marriages, depicting it in a positive way (non negative at least), was one major reason public opinion changed on this topic, it took many years to accomplish though. point is, 'someone' or powers that be, had some influence in all this.
 
Old 07-10-2018, 05:09 PM
 
33,821 posts, read 17,312,451 times
Reputation: 18556
Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
The powers that be is who I was referring to.

A good example of this is back in recent decades, in changing public opinion on interracial and homosexual relationships/ marriages, depicting it in a positive way (non negative at least), was one major reason public opinion changed on this topic, it took many years to accomplish though. point is, 'someone' or powers that be, had some influence in all this.
Ehm - OK. Not sure changing social mores can always be attributed to a specific power cabal, and I'm still not any the wiser who you imagine would stop the making of Capricorn One or what mechanism they'd use.
 
Old 07-10-2018, 07:21 PM
 
Location: PRC
3,250 posts, read 3,365,783 times
Reputation: 2950
Quote:
Not sure changing social mores can always be attributed to a specific power cabal,...
Are you honestly telling me you do not recognize the power of advertising, the influence of media to change and influence the public view and how the political parties use specifically timed release of information to hide or slip through "inconvenient" news?

In addition, our subconscious misses nothing. It brings up to our conscious at a later date that which it thinks is useful for survival. The media and government know this and play on it.

The Moon Landing was as much a PR exercise as it was a scientific expedition to the Moon and the importance of giving the public something "useful" to think about is as valid now as it was back in the 60's. There are just more distractions these days.
 
Old 07-12-2018, 06:40 AM
 
12,333 posts, read 3,249,816 times
Reputation: 8207
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
Are you honestly telling me you do not recognize the power of advertising, the influence of media to change and influence the public view and how the political parties use specifically timed release of information to hide or slip through "inconvenient" news?

In addition, our subconscious misses nothing. It brings up to our conscious at a later date that which it thinks is useful for survival. The media and government know this and play on it.

The Moon Landing was as much a PR exercise as it was a scientific expedition to the Moon and the importance of giving the public something "useful" to think about is as valid now as it was back in the 60's. There are just more distractions these days.
Yep, they have this down to an exact science now! They know how to target our subconscious mind, even though we dont even realize its happening.
 
Old 07-13-2018, 04:34 PM
 
33,821 posts, read 17,312,451 times
Reputation: 18556
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocpaul20 View Post
Are you honestly telling me you do not recognize the power of advertising, the influence of media to change and influence the public view and how the political parties use specifically timed release of information to hide or slip through "inconvenient" news?
Everybody tries to influence us (and political parties are rank amateurs compared to corporations), but it's a bit of a leap from that to postulating that an unspecified "they" would have the power to stop Capricorn One.
 
Old 07-14-2018, 09:57 AM
 
12,333 posts, read 3,249,816 times
Reputation: 8207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
Everybody tries to influence us (and political parties are rank amateurs compared to corporations), but it's a bit of a leap from that to postulating that an unspecified "they" would have the power to stop Capricorn One.
I remember back around the time the movie 'Sum of all fears' was getting ready to come out, this was shortly after 9-11 happened, 'they' delayed the release of that movie, due to a nuclear bomb being set off at a superbowl in the movie...it was too soon after 9-11.

Point is, this decision did not come from Hollywood, it came from 'the powers that be'.
 
Old 07-14-2018, 05:51 PM
 
7,168 posts, read 3,920,595 times
Reputation: 6765
Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
I remember back around the time the movie 'Sum of all fears' was getting ready to come out, this was shortly after 9-11 happened, 'they' delayed the release of that movie, due to a nuclear bomb being set off at a superbowl in the movie...it was too soon after 9-11.

Point is, this decision did not come from Hollywood, it came from 'the powers that be'.
"DL: Speaking of the real world, has this movie been delayed because of 9-11?

PAR [Phil Alden Robinson the director]: It was always intended to come out (now). In fact, when I came on board in August of 2000, they said, "This is a Summer-of-2002 picture.""

The Sum of All Fears - Interview with Phil Alden Robinson - Nitrate Online Feature
 
Old 07-14-2018, 06:56 PM
 
Location: PRC
3,250 posts, read 3,365,783 times
Reputation: 2950
I am afraid at the moment there are some really dodgy characters in Hollywood and in politics but there is nothing new in that where the rich and famous play there is always dodgy stuff going on and the line gets super-blurry between the movies and real life. Unfortunately for them, there are some rules which society will not allow to be bent which kind of brings them back to reality with a bang.

Quote:
Everybody tries to influence us (and political parties are rank amateurs compared to corporations), but it's a bit of a leap from that to postulating that an unspecified "they" would have the power to stop Capricorn One.
Not so. Political parties hire the best media representatives to 'manage' their campaigns. Many politicians have links to industry anyway as they sit on boards of directors and other influential positions and if they dont, then they move in similar circles because one group feeds off the other.

An unspecified 'they' is rather like saying 'the authorities' because it encompasses many different groups of powerful and influential individuals. Like the tentacles or hyphi of a fungus the fingers of influence disappear into many different organisations. They all seek to control and influence the outcomes to serve themselves.

So, no leap, there are plenty of ways to exert influence.
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