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Old 06-16-2018, 05:54 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LifeIsGood01 View Post
What do you mean may be wrong. You mean they may be mentally ill or slow adults?
Stupid people wouldn't bother wondering what shape the earth was in the first place if they were really that stupid. If they have a theory that is fine. Where they generally throw me off is the part where they assume the Earth is flat then tack it up to being proof that God made it that way. Maybe, maybe not. Who is to say he didn't make it round like all the other celestial bodies appear to be?
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Old 07-09-2019, 11:37 PM
 
Location: Martinsburg, West Virginia
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The planets orbit what is known as the barycenter, that is the center of gravity between the planet and the sun. Jupiter is the only planet that does not technically orbit Sol. Jupiter orbits a point just outside the sun.
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Old 07-10-2019, 02:27 AM
 
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Awaiting the response from the OP.

This will be interesting...
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Old 07-10-2019, 07:58 AM
 
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Well, all of this was well known 300 years ago. Ref: Johannes Kepler.


All you have to do, is to wade through the calculus of planetary motions (term used in the general sense, as the sun exhibits a planetary motion wtih respect to its galaxy).


In truth if one were to calculate the exact motion of the Sun in the solar-system frame of reference, it would exhibit a very complex set of perturbations as it reacts to a different degree to the mass, distance, and orbit frequency of each of the planets and major asteroids. Heck, the Earth's Moon probably has an effect on the position of the Sun that is not negligible in these calculations, being a rather large body near the Sun that exhibits a complex motion.


Then, you have the fact that the Sun is orbiting about the Galaxy, so the details of the Sun's motion in the Galaxy frame of reference are even more complex. Plus there are probably interactions between our solar system and other ones in the same galaxy, that are large enough to figure in the calculations. So superimpose those motions onto the motions found in the solar system frame of reference.


Then, you have the fact that the galaxies are moving away from the putative center of the universe at a certain speed (which varies with the distance from said center). So in the universe frame of reference, you superimpose that motion as well.


I'm not sure at what size scale relativistic effects start to come into play, I think I remember that it's around the scale of the maximum definition of the size of our solar system (in other words, not significant for the distance of Earth to our Moon, starting to be significant for distances like the Sun to Uranus). Someone who's more up on these things can correct me here.


Knowledge of the expanding universe goes back some 50-70 years I think (Hubble? Red shift). Knowledge of the basic structure of galaxies maybe 100 years (Lowell?). But knowledge and understanding of the solar system and barycenters goes back to Kepler.


One reason these tiny perturbations have often been neglected both in calculations and common speech is that calculating them using direct analytical methods (the calculus) is an enormous and complex task. So even if Kepler knew that the sun's position is being affected by the orbits of each of the planets (how many of them were known in his day? 6? 7?) he had to ignore these small effects due to the limitations of calculation.


Today, with high speed computers, you can do some sort of Fourier-like analysis and the big 'puter will happily use numerical methods to calculate the results all day long, results that would have taken a room full of PhD mathematicians to calculate 50 years ago. True, using numerical methods will always only ever give you an estimate, but you can run a jillion estimates and get a far smaller error in way less time than it would take you to run exact calculations that would STILL only be estimates, because in order to have the calculation finished before humans go extinct, you have to apply the "go-away" theorem to all the smaller terms ANYWAY.


So the summary:


Yeah, yeah, people have known this for ages, it's just that due to the mathematical complexity of the calculations, you couldn't calculate these effects practicably till the advent of numerical methods of estimation and high speed digital computers.
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Old 07-10-2019, 08:04 AM
 
6,140 posts, read 2,782,175 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanAdventurer View Post
Stupid people wouldn't bother wondering what shape the earth was in the first place if they were really that stupid. If they have a theory that is fine. Where they generally throw me off is the part where they assume the Earth is flat then tack it up to being proof that God made it that way. Maybe, maybe not. Who is to say he didn't make it round like all the other celestial bodies appear to be?
As far as that goes, a friend of mine made a good statement the other day:


"I believe God likes it when we figure out this complicated stuff."


I'll just leave it at that.
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