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Old 09-17-2018, 07:42 AM
 
7,168 posts, read 3,920,595 times
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First, thanks to the Mod for closing the last inane thread.

We are coming up soon on 50 years since the first landing, and SpaceX is planning a trip around the moon at some point with the BFR when it is human-rated. This may take a while.

The Google Lunar X Prize of $20 million expired with no takers.

SLS is slowly progressing but will probably take a decade.

I was a baby when Apollo 11 landed on the moon and hope I will see (and remember it this time) during my lifetime.

I think that until China lands a person on the moon there will be little motivation for the US to go back, at least in a reasonable timeframe. The US funds projects best when there is a perceived threat.

Any other thoughts or initiatives that should be pursued?
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Old 09-17-2018, 04:14 PM
 
Location: Madison, Alabama
3,971 posts, read 2,031,976 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markjames68 View Post
First, thanks to the Mod for closing the last inane thread.

We are coming up soon on 50 years since the first landing, and SpaceX is planning a trip around the moon at some point with the BFR when it is human-rated. This may take a while.

The Google Lunar X Prize of $20 million expired with no takers.

SLS is slowly progressing but will probably take a decade.

I was a baby when Apollo 11 landed on the moon and hope I will see (and remember it this time) during my lifetime.

I think that until China lands a person on the moon there will be little motivation for the US to go back, at least in a reasonable timeframe. The US funds projects best when there is a perceived threat.

Any other thoughts or initiatives that should be pursued?
Pretty amazing isn't it, considering the Saturn V (along with Saturn I and IB) development was something like 5-6 years. It's even more amazing when computing capability is compared now to then. But as you say, we do better when there's a perceived threat. Virtually unlimited funding certainly helped, but I fully believe that the computing power we now have has enabled us to run so many options that we go around in circles. I've been retired almost 10 years, and we were running SLS options when I left. It was supposed to have already flown.
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Old 09-17-2018, 08:02 PM
 
7,168 posts, read 3,920,595 times
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Originally Posted by RocketDawg View Post
Pretty amazing isn't it, considering the Saturn V (along with Saturn I and IB) development was something like 5-6 years. It's even more amazing when computing capability is compared now to then. But as you say, we do better when there's a perceived threat. Virtually unlimited funding certainly helped, but I fully believe that the computing power we now have has enabled us to run so many options that we go around in circles. I've been retired almost 10 years, and we were running SLS options when I left. It was supposed to have already flown.
It’s sad, but until there is a threat from SpaceX they will plod along with their design and test program. If you look at Saturn V they took a lot of chances - all up testing was one shortcut.

What annoys me is that SLS uses LH and LOX, which is efficient and clean but not energy dense.
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Old 09-18-2018, 04:18 PM
 
Location: Madison, Alabama
3,971 posts, read 2,031,976 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markjames68 View Post
It’s sad, but until there is a threat from SpaceX they will plod along with their design and test program. If you look at Saturn V they took a lot of chances - all up testing was one shortcut.

What annoys me is that SLS uses LH and LOX, which is efficient and clean but not energy dense.
Are you thinking nuclear, or going back to LOX/Kerosene? Or something else.
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Old 09-19-2018, 02:13 PM
 
Location: Seattle
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I'd like to see a nuclear-powered rover explore some of the lunar lava caves and see how useful they'd be for creating colonies. Plus there may be cold trap ice in there.
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Old 09-19-2018, 02:15 PM
 
7,168 posts, read 3,920,595 times
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Originally Posted by RocketDawg View Post
Are you thinking nuclear, or going back to LOX/Kerosene? Or something else.
I’d like to see work done with both.

LOX/kerosene for energy density for ground to LEO, nuclear third stage.

The problem I’m seeing with SLS is that they are getting too elegant, which is what was done with the Shuttle. Saturn V worked largely as it was brute force. Big engines, lots of thrust, energy dense fuels.
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Old 09-19-2018, 02:20 PM
 
7,168 posts, read 3,920,595 times
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Originally Posted by rjshae View Post
I'd like to see a nuclear-powered rover explore some of the lunar lava caves and see how useful they'd be for creating colonies. Plus there may be cold trap ice in there.
Would be good to do more ground-based reconnaissance on the moon.
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Old 09-28-2018, 03:25 PM
 
33,821 posts, read 17,312,451 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markjames68 View Post
I’d like to see work done with both.

LOX/kerosene for energy density for ground to LEO, nuclear third stage.

The problem I’m seeing with SLS is that they are getting too elegant, which is what was done with the Shuttle. Saturn V worked largely as it was brute force. Big engines, lots of thrust, energy dense fuels.
Well, the SLS is pretty much built on Shuttle tech, so no big surprise there. I've grumbled before that the SLS progam's purpose is to keep the Shuttle supply chain in funds, the rocket is a byproduct.

I do find it interesting that SpaceX is going the third way with LOX/methane, though. If it works well without too many development setbacks, they're in a very good spot. If it doesn't, though...
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Old 09-30-2018, 11:43 AM
 
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With all the classified tech the US govt keeps under wraps, I have no doubt they have something that would work just fine!

Heck, even back in 1990s high school psychics class, we achieved 'anti gravity' using counter rotating magnetic rings! the AG effect was toroidal as well. LOL
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Old 09-30-2018, 04:22 PM
 
5,210 posts, read 8,210,851 times
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Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
With all the classified tech the US govt keeps under wraps, I have no doubt they have something that would work just fine!

Heck, even back in 1990s high school psychics class, we achieved 'anti gravity' using counter rotating magnetic rings! the AG effect was toroidal as well. LOL
How would anti-gravity using counter rotating rings be applied in a meaningful way to go to the Moon? You put out a nugget of interest without any supporting references.
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