U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Science and Technology > Space
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 10-02-2018, 05:18 PM
 
Location: Maryland
2,158 posts, read 729,163 times
Reputation: 4827

Advertisements

It sounds like the radiation hazard for long duration trips might be worse than thought.

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/...uman-gi-tracts
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-02-2018, 06:32 PM
 
1,675 posts, read 2,562,583 times
Reputation: 1466
We would definitely need to solve the radiation problem before deep space exploration can become commonplace.

One solution I've considered (as well as others) would be to equip the spaceships with a sort of electromagnet so as to provide an artificial magnetosphere for the vessel. Other people are looking into using plain old water as the radiation shield.

Shielding a spaceship is one thing. Shielding an entire planet however is much more tricky. People are working the problem though.

I saw one proposal a while back that involved placing giant magnetic dipoles on the martian surface at both poles and powering them using huge nuclear power plants to create a man-made planetary magnetosphere. Obviously, this would be insanely expensive but it would provide 360° protection from both solar and cosmic radiation.

NASA has proposed a different method of placing a magnetic shield in orbit between Mars and the sun.
NASA Wants to Launch a Giant Magnetic Field to Make Mars Habitable - ScienceAlert

It is thought that if we can give Mars protection against solar radiation and solar winds, the martian atmosphere would return rather quickly.
Quote:
In the team's simulations, if the solar wind were counteracted by the magnetic shield, Mars's atmospheric losses would stop, and the atmosphere would regain as much as half the atmospheric pressure of Earth in a matter of years.

As the atmosphere becomes thicker, the team estimates Mars's climate would become around 4 degrees Celsius (7.2 degrees Fahrenheit) warmer, which would be enough to melt carbon dioxide ice over the Red Planet's northern polar cap.

If this happened, the carbon in the atmosphere would help to trap heat like it does on Earth, triggering a greenhouse effect that could melt Mars's water ice, giving the Red Planet back its liquid water in the form of flowing rivers and oceans.

If all of this were to occur as the team anticipates – and admittedly, that's a pretty fantastical if – it's possible that, within the space of a couple of generations, Mars could regain some of its lost Earth-like habitability.

Last edited by Adric; 10-02-2018 at 06:47 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-02-2018, 07:51 PM
 
Location: Maryland
2,158 posts, read 729,163 times
Reputation: 4827
Interesting stuff. I wonder if a variation of a Bussard Ram Jet, like a RAIR, could be used as a magnetic shield. I’m not a physicist but know the principle of operation requires that they generate enormous magnetic fields. Plus the same device could be used to provide supplemental thrust and braking. Just idle fantasy......probably not enough velocity on such a short trip.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-02-2018, 08:04 PM
 
1,410 posts, read 1,113,819 times
Reputation: 1636
Use water, plenty on the moon.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-03-2018, 05:10 PM
 
Location: Mars City
5,536 posts, read 2,404,229 times
Reputation: 8161
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdhpa View Post
Use water, plenty on the moon.
Yeah right. There are lots of fruit trees there too.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-03-2018, 05:57 PM
 
Location: Madison, Alabama
3,955 posts, read 2,019,847 times
Reputation: 3022
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoreau424 View Post
Yeah right. There are lots of fruit trees there too.
There supposedly is plenty, but it's frozen and might be difficult to get to. You'd have to melt it to be able to use it as a radiation shield for a Mars trip, and I suppose it would freeze again once in space, assuming it is one of the outer layers of the Mars vehicle. Not sure if water ice has the same radiation shielding properties as liquid water.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-04-2018, 12:05 PM
 
Location: Mars City
5,536 posts, read 2,404,229 times
Reputation: 8161
Quote:
Originally Posted by RocketDawg View Post
There supposedly is plenty, but it's frozen and might be difficult to get to. You'd have to melt it to be able to use it as a radiation shield for a Mars trip...Not sure if water ice has the same radiation shielding properties as liquid water.
Radiation passes through water, ice, and most materials. What point are trying to make?

Maybe a huge amount of water, many feet in depth/thickness, could lessen the radiation, but there'd be no way to encircle a craft with such an amount.

No sane person or scientist would entertain such an approach.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-04-2018, 01:10 PM
 
1,410 posts, read 1,113,819 times
Reputation: 1636
According to this, about 1 meter of water:

https://space.stackexchange.com/ques...on-shielding-i


Which is a lot of water to get into orbit from Earth, but there is also water on the moon:

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/23/world...udy/index.html
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-04-2018, 04:14 PM
 
Location: Seattle
2,257 posts, read 483,431 times
Reputation: 2126
If NASA can develop higher thrust ion drives, it could mitigate a significant portion of the radiation exposure.


https://futurism.com/toyotas-trucks-...ng-goods-in-la


The experimental X3 Hall thruster can generate 5.4 Newtons, compared to 90 millinewtons for the Dawn mission.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-05-2018, 12:01 PM
 
Location: Mars City
5,536 posts, read 2,404,229 times
Reputation: 8161
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjshae View Post
If NASA can develop higher thrust ion drives, it could mitigate a significant portion of the radiation exposure.
Huh? The radiation comes from the sun. How are you going to outrun or hide from the sun? This isn't an earth issue, or "higher thrust" matter. That's totally irrelevant.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Science and Technology > Space
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:07 AM.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top