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Old 03-08-2019, 11:38 AM
 
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eK4NqGqmVt8

The Universe is really expansive, and huge. And while I know we can't definitely say there isn't life on other planets, as I am sure there is in the scope of say microorganisms or single celled organisms, I personally think it would be kind of sad if in this vast amazing Universe, Earth itself just happened to be extremely lucky in being able to have the kind of life we have.
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Old 03-08-2019, 01:26 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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How any sane person can't fathom life as advanced as ours or even more advanced in this universe is beyond me.
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Old 03-10-2019, 04:39 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine View Post
How any sane person can't fathom life as advanced as ours or even more advanced in this universe is beyond me.
I totally agree.


Personally I think its probably alot like Star Wars or Star trek, in that, there are numerous other systems, some are advanced, some are not, many are in between, its also probable that some of these systems are aware of each other, have commerce in place, and I would imagine some have battled each other over the years. There are probably all different types of beings out there too (just like Star wars), every shape and size, color, we could imagine!


However if we are really the ONLY civilization that exists in all of the universe...that is VERY frightening.
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Old 03-10-2019, 05:07 PM
 
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I'd say it's more likely impossible that there isn't intelligent life out there somewhere.
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Old 03-10-2019, 05:28 PM
 
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An impossibility. There is nothing in the universe post Big Bang that has happened only once.
The only question is how many.
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Old 03-11-2019, 11:12 AM
 
Location: Seattle
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I have a quirky alternative hypothesis: there's no intelligent life elsewhere in the universe because as soon as an advanced race is about to develop time travel, the quantum mechanical nature of the Universe recognizes the paradox and wipes them from existence.


Probably not the case, but perhaps interesting to contemplate.
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Old 03-11-2019, 11:25 AM
 
Location: Mars City
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It's only sad if you value the limitations of what we know; that we don't know of life anywhere else.

The universe is HUGE! Do you get that? We can only see an extremely excruciatingly tiny piece of it. Comparing to a scale we can somewhat recognize, it would be like only the visibility of an atom (but even smaller than that hard-to-grasp dimension). An atom in one location won't see an atom in the next room, let alone outside, across town, elsewhere in the state, or across the ocean.

Why put ourselves on some level of understanding and visibility that is laughingly not there?

I'm not going to write off the chance of life elsewhere, because we can't see enough to come to that conclusion. Odds and changes are, it's highly likely in many locations.

Assuming we're the only form of life (or intelligent life) in the universe is also like us being the center of the universe (the sun and planets revolving around us; as though we are so important and significant in the universe). We abandoned that humanistic and egocentric thinking long ago.

Last edited by Thoreau424; 03-11-2019 at 11:44 AM..
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Old 03-11-2019, 10:38 PM
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
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I think about space quite often, it has always interested me. I believe there is life, and likely intelligent life that could match or exceed human intelligence in many/most ways in our own galaxy. However, the caveat is that the vastness of space makes this basically irrelevant. Not to be mean here, but do you really think humanity could ever physically visit even our next nearest star, let alone another galaxy? These trips would take millions of years and would be outright impossible. The vastness of space makes travel, communication, and interaction between biological intelligent races impossible (however AI could be a different story). And perhaps this is a blessing too, since any two intelligent races would be vastly different in technological capabilities.

The Earth is so amazingly special and beautiful. Truly one of the few things in our plane of existence I would consider to be perfect (People always say nothing is really "perfect", but I believe the Earth in all its wonder is perfect).

Also, to answer your OP, yes it would be quite shocking if we knew with certainty that Earth was the only true Garden of Eden with perfect living conditions in our universe. In our own solar system (besides Earth obviosuly) I think simple life forms may have existed on Venus and Mars at one time. And I think there is intelligent life in the Milky Way galaxy, with over 100 billion planets. There has to be another lottery winner out there somewhere in the universe. But likely, we will probably never find out with certainty, and even if we did, there is zero percent chance for any dialogue or interaction given the vastness of space. We would be decifering a signal from a long-gone civilization. Again, this is certainly a blessing as interaction would be extremely dangerous.

Last edited by g500; 03-11-2019 at 11:18 PM..
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Old 03-12-2019, 01:12 AM
 
Location: Somewhere in northern Alabama
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I agree that it is irrelevant anyway, barring the discovery of some previously unknown dimension at the core of "spooky action at a distance."

The idea that because there are many stars there must be many with planets holding intelligent life is a flawed use of probability.

"No amount of fancy probabilistic analysis can justify treating guesswork and wishful thinking as having any sort of scientific weight."
https://medium.com/starts-with-a-ban...e-8f31a559f741


The old Drake equation is:

N = R ∗ ⋅ f p ⋅ n e ⋅ f l ⋅ f i ⋅ f c ⋅ L

where:

N = the number of civilizations in our galaxy with which communication might be possible and
R∗ = the average rate of star formation in our galaxy
fp = the fraction of those stars that have planets
ne = the average number of planets that can potentially support life per star that has planets
fl = the fraction of planets that could support life that actually develop life at some point
fi = the fraction of planets with life that actually go on to develop intelligent life (civilizations)
fc = the fraction of civilizations that develop a technology that releases detectable signs of their existence into space
L = the length of time for which such civilizations release detectable signals into space

The problem with this is that it is far too neat and simplistic and doesn't take into account factors that were unknown at the time. Even a cursory examination shows that "fl" assumes "at some point" and then uses that as a number - as if the planet ALWAYS could carry life. "fl" has other problems as well. Vast swaths of planets or moons get eliminated for various failings, some of which we likely don't even yet know. Instead of a single "fl", that part of the equation needs to be broken down further.

So, in doing that, we run into multiple exclusions of planets that make the fraction almost impossibly rare if we consider life based on carbon and water as the only life capable of advanced evolution.

Must be in Goldilocks zone AND
Must have a magnetic pole as shielding AND
Must have a suitable mix of elements on it (leaving out most early arrivals) AND
Must not be bombarded with radiation (leaving out just about all stars and planets near a galactic core) AND
Must have sufficient atmosphere with suitable mix of gases AND
Must not have an excess of toxic or mutagenic compounds AND
I could go on with dozens of other requirements.

These are not "choose any three" but every single box must be checked.

As for advanced life, Earth has had multiple mass extinction events, millions of tries at various plants and animals, created intelligent life in animals that can't be effective with tools, such as dolphins and whales, and even only one of many species of humans made the jump to social intelligence and cooperative civilization resulting in advanced technology.

Stating that because there are massive numbers of stars there must be numerous civilizations of intelligent beings is like saying that because there are massive numbers of grains of sand on a beach that one of them must have created a pizza.

Once we have a greater understanding of the extreme rarity of the combination of events that created our civilization we might have a more realistic understanding of whether any others exist. Remember that evolution favors brute strength, toxicity, size, fecundity, and meanness. Intelligence has never been a big marker of evolutionary success before.

If I had to guess, I would place the odds (at best) as about one civilization capable of getting into space per medium sized galaxy.
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Old 03-12-2019, 07:09 AM
 
Location: Pennsylvania, USA
419 posts, read 295,553 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harry chickpea View Post
Stating that because there are massive numbers of stars there must be numerous civilizations of intelligent beings is like saying that because there are massive numbers of grains of sand on a beach that one of them must have created a pizza.
Harry, I agree with your post, but wanted to address the quote. It is logical to assume that another scenario with the outcome of intelligent life could be duplicated in the vastness of our universe - i.e. winning lottery ticket. We ourselves are living proof that a grain of sand did in fact create a pizza (a rather delicious one too). However, using ourselves as proof of other intelligent life existing is biased because there is the possibility that we are the only intelligent life in the universe (Rare Earth Hypothesis). I think the point you are making is that probability, no matter how certain, cannot "will" anything into existence. Theory does not change reality. There either is, or is not. Without direct evidence or proof of intelligent life, there is no way to know the truth. There could be other intelligent life in our universe now, but this is likely irrelevant given the vastness and harshness of space, making any meaningful interaction impossible. We are alone whether intelligent life exists or not, and this is a blessing.

Last edited by g500; 03-12-2019 at 08:38 AM..
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