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Old 07-19-2019, 04:21 PM
 
Location: Baker City, Oregon
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Since religion has been brought into this thread:

Some physicists have noted that St. Augustine of Hippo's (A.D. 354 - 430) idea of creation was very similar to the Big Bang theory.

Religions people (almost everybody was at that time) wondered (and some still do) what God did before he created the Universe – for instance, since it was thought that he had existed forever, didn't he get bored with nothing to do?

Augustine said that the universe was created in an instant, and not in time, but with time. In other words, just as in the Big Bang, there was no time before creation – time began when the Universe began.

This confounded people, just as the Big Bang theory does today.

St Augustine was extremely intelligent. Had he been born in our time, he might have been a scientist rather than a bishop and a theologian.
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Old 07-19-2019, 04:44 PM
 
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If religion keeps getting brought up in this thread, the moderator is sure to close it, and that wouldn't be fair to the OP. Just saying.
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Old 07-19-2019, 05:07 PM
 
Location: Baker City, Oregon
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Of course, many physicists say that since string theory, as well as the multiverse and other ideas of modern physics are potentially untestable, they are more like religion and philosophy than science.
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Old 08-02-2019, 09:02 AM
 
Location: Maine
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Originally Posted by karlsch View Post
Some physicists have noted that St. Augustine of Hippo's (A.D. 354 - 430) idea of creation was very similar to the Big Bang theory.
The guy who came up with the theory that later became known as the Big Bang Theory was Georges Lemaitre, who in addition to being a physicist was also a Roman Catholic Priest. The idea was initially scoffed at by scientists, who thought the idea smacked too much of religion. But the more they began to check the evidence, the more they came around.

https://www.physicsoftheuniverse.com..._lemaitre.html


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
If religion keeps getting brought up in this thread, the moderator is sure to close it, and that wouldn't be fair to the OP. Just saying.
That would be a shame and unfair. Religion and science both search for truth in their own ways, and every now and then they intersect. Cosmology and origins is definitely one of those areas.

Back to the OP's original question:

I don't know. Based on my very limited understanding of String Theory and modern Cosmology, I have no problem with the idea that the Big Bang was caused by two alternate dimensions colliding. Let's look at the evidence and see if it holds up.

If it is true, then we still haven't answered the Big Question. Our universe came from the Big Bang. Okay. Where did the Big Bang come from? Alternate dimensions colliding? Okay. Where did those alternate dimensions come from? Other dimensions? Okay. Where did they come from?

You see why this question is just as much one for religion and philosophy as it is science. Perhaps moreso, since science can only examine measurable forces and material evidence. We're now talking about concepts that may have no measurable forces or material evidence.
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Old 08-02-2019, 09:54 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
The guy who came up with the theory that later became known as the Big Bang Theory was Georges Lemaitre, who in addition to being a physicist was also a Roman Catholic Priest. The idea was initially scoffed at by scientists, who thought the idea smacked too much of religion. But the more they began to check the evidence, the more they came around.

https://www.physicsoftheuniverse.com..._lemaitre.html




That would be a shame and unfair. Religion and science both search for truth in their own ways, and every now and then they intersect. Cosmology and origins is definitely one of those areas.

Back to the OP's original question:

I don't know. Based on my very limited understanding of String Theory and modern Cosmology, I have no problem with the idea that the Big Bang was caused by two alternate dimensions colliding. Let's look at the evidence and see if it holds up.

If it is true, then we still haven't answered the Big Question. Our universe came from the Big Bang. Okay. Where did the Big Bang come from? Alternate dimensions colliding? Okay. Where did those alternate dimensions come from? Other dimensions? Okay. Where did they come from?

You see why this question is just as much one for religion and philosophy as it is science. Perhaps moreso, since science can only examine measurable forces and material evidence. We're now talking about concepts that may have no measurable forces or material evidence.
Well, from a purely materialistic standpoint, the way I see it is that something has always had to exist for the simple reason that if there had ever been a point where absolutely nothing existed, that is, no cosmic foam or quantum particles popping into and out of existence, no other dimensions, no form of energy at all, then nothing could have ever come into existence. So for lack of a better way of putting it, the 'natural default' (I simply have no better way of saying it) is for there always to have been energy of some form in existence. It didn't come into existence, it simply always existed. From that energy came the cause for the so called big bang.

So the issue is, how could anything have come into existence if absolutely nothing existed in the first place, and yet, how could something have always existed without having first come into existence.?

So, as I see it, something has always existed without having come into existence, just because. That's my answer - just because. The answer a five year old would give to a question to which he doesn't know the answer.
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Old 08-02-2019, 10:09 AM
 
Location: Maine
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Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
So, as I see it, something has always existed without having come into existence, just because. That's my answer - just because. The answer a five year old would give to a question to which he doesn't know the answer.
That isn't an answer. That is an evasion. But I admire your honesty.
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Old 08-02-2019, 10:44 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
That isn't an answer. That is an evasion. But I admire your honesty.
When one doesn't know, he evades.

Okay, everything we know came into existence at some point. But since, again, absolute nothingness cannot give rise to anything, the way of things, the greater reality which lies beyond our experience is for something to have always been in existence or we wouldn't be here to wonder about it.

Physicists have actually advanced a number of hypothesis such as the brane hypothesis to which the OP holds. Another is the idea that there is an energy field that due to random fluctuations and the uncertainty principle, new universes are constantly being created like bubbles in a cosmic foam. But we have no way to test any of the ideas.
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Old 08-02-2019, 10:56 AM
 
Location: Maine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Okay, everything we know came into existence at some point. But since, again, absolute nothingness cannot give rise to anything, the way of things, the greater reality which lies beyond our experience is for something to have always been in existence or we wouldn't be here to wonder about it.

Physicists have actually advanced a number of hypothesis such as the brane hypothesis to which the OP holds. Another is the idea that there is an energy field that due to random fluctuations and the uncertainty principle, new universes are constantly being created like bubbles in a cosmic foam. But we have no way to test any of the ideas.
Exactly. Which is why this is one of those areas where science is forced to talk to philosophy and religion. When you're out of your depth, you can either reach for a hand, or you can drown.
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Old 08-02-2019, 11:08 AM
 
Location: Seattle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Okay, everything we know came into existence at some point. But since, again, absolute nothingness cannot give rise to anything, the way of things, the greater reality which lies beyond our experience is for something to have always been in existence or we wouldn't be here to wonder about it.
It depends on what you consider "absolute nothing". There's nothing in quantum mechanics that precludes an entire expanding universe popping into existence out of a vacuum.
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Old 08-02-2019, 11:26 AM
 
Location: Maine
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Originally Posted by rjshae View Post
It depends on what you consider "absolute nothing". There's nothing in quantum mechanics that precludes an entire expanding universe popping into existence out of a vacuum.
"Absolute nothing" means "absolute nothing."

If the Big Bang was the result of some quantum fizzo or the collision of two or more alternate dimensions or the belch of the cosmic turtle ... fine. But where did the quantum fizzo and the alternate dimensions and the cosmic turtle come from?

Quantum physics may be able to push "the beginning" beyond the Big Bang. But it still fails to answer the Ultimate Question: What was the First Cause?
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