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Old 07-25-2019, 08:41 AM
 
Location: Maryland
2,158 posts, read 729,163 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidt1 View Post
Thanks but I not am getting what you are saying. The GPS thing I get. The age thing, no. If we wake up tomorrow to an earth that orbits sun ten times slower and rotates ten times slower, time would seem a lot slower but that would not let us live longer.
You answered it yourself when you said “internal” clock. The clock for the traveler really does run slow. It is not just some trick of convenience to deal with math. Atomic clocks put in orbit around the earth have verified this. Their physics slows down, just like that rate of chemical reactions slows down for a relativistic traveler, RELATIVE TO AN OUTSIDE TIME FRAME. Time literally runs slower at near light velocities. Within the frame of the traveler however, the reactions are normal. We do not see, for example, that their body temperature falls because their metabolism is slowing....because it’s not slowing in their time frame, everything is exactly as normal. You’re not going to make any kind of intuitive sense of this because it defies our usual and normal experience of the world. Those realities of the quantum world and relativity are beyond the evolved ability of our senses to deal with them in an intuitive manner.
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Old 07-25-2019, 01:47 PM
 
Location: Somewhere in northern Alabama
18,514 posts, read 55,435,808 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LesLucid View Post
You answered it yourself when you said “internal” clock. The clock for the traveler really does run slow. It is not just some trick of convenience to deal with math. Atomic clocks put in orbit around the earth have verified this. Their physics slows down, just like that rate of chemical reactions slows down for a relativistic traveler, RELATIVE TO AN OUTSIDE TIME FRAME. Time literally runs slower at near light velocities. Within the frame of the traveler however, the reactions are normal. We do not see, for example, that their body temperature falls because their metabolism is slowing....because it’s not slowing in their time frame, everything is exactly as normal. You’re not going to make any kind of intuitive sense of this because it defies our usual and normal experience of the world. Those realities of the quantum world and relativity are beyond the evolved ability of our senses to deal with them in an intuitive manner.
Hmmm, I hadn't considered that aspect, but it raises some interesting questions and thought puzzles. As an example, a man traveling at 1/2 light speed would appear to be colder to outside observers because heat is directly related to the speed of movement of molecules. At light speed, the man would appear to be at absolute zero, as all movement other than the forward velocity would stop. A massless photon traveling at light speed in a vacuum could been seen as being in suspended animation until it is slowed. The next question is what is happening to a photon that is slowed by passing through some medium? Is it still effectively frozen, or not? Perhaps the limitation of the speed of mass is a double whammy, where the apparent mass is greater and it approaches the absolute zero barrier, where it can't get any colder? Scientifically, there are probably holes in this line of thought, but it could make for some interesting sci-fi stories.
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Old 07-26-2019, 09:43 AM
 
Location: Seattle
2,258 posts, read 483,431 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harry chickpea View Post
Hmmm, I hadn't considered that aspect, but it raises some interesting questions and thought puzzles. As an example, a man traveling at 1/2 light speed would appear to be colder to outside observers because heat is directly related to the speed of movement of molecules. At light speed, the man would appear to be at absolute zero, as all movement other than the forward velocity would stop. A massless photon traveling at light speed in a vacuum could been seen as being in suspended animation until it is slowed. The next question is what is happening to a photon that is slowed by passing through some medium? Is it still effectively frozen, or not? Perhaps the limitation of the speed of mass is a double whammy, where the apparent mass is greater and it approaches the absolute zero barrier, where it can't get any colder? Scientifically, there are probably holes in this line of thought, but it could make for some interesting sci-fi stories.
A couple of comments:

Mass can't travel at the speed of light, so the man would never appear "frozen". If he's moving away from you at half the speed of light, he would appear heavily red-shifted.

Particles moving at the speed of light don't experience time.
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Old 07-27-2019, 12:21 AM
 
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I have a feeling if we ever achieved the tech to experiment with some of this stuff, LOTS of crazy bizarre effects would probably happen, some that took us totally by surprise too and some we could not understand.
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Old 08-11-2019, 12:37 AM
 
Location: Martinsburg, West Virginia
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Time is relative, or its speed of passage is. The person traveling close to the speed of light time is passing more slowly than the person not traveling at relativistic speeds. This effect is seen in comic ray particles hitting the Earth's upper atmosphere. The particles created when the cosmic rays (particles moving at close to light speed) hit molecules in the upper atmosphere. The particles created in such collisions have very short lives. Those lives are too short for the particles to make it to the surface, but they do reach the ground. How? The newly created particles are moving at close to light speed and thus time for them is moving more slowly than other slower moving particles.
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Old 08-16-2019, 12:25 AM
 
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
6,093 posts, read 3,036,914 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidt1 View Post
Thanks but I not am getting what you are saying. The GPS thing I get. The age thing, no. If we wake up tomorrow to an earth that orbits sun ten times slower and rotates ten times slower, time would seem a lot slower but that would not let us live longer.
Perhaps we should rephrase the question. The man did not age slower. He aged at his normal rate but because he was moving close to the speed of light relative to his daughter, less time passed for him, relative than for his daughter.
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Old 08-16-2019, 10:04 AM
 
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Why must it be looked at as time slows down, as opposed to processes slow down, with time is the same?

Like if I take off at FTL, and 500 years pass by on Earth. I dont age at all. Why does that mean time slowed for me, as oppose to me just being in a sort of conscious/mobile cryo-sleep bought about by traveling very fast or me just living longer, but my actions and thoughts are very slow.

Or if I in high gravity, my metabolism slows, instead of time slowing.

Last edited by NJ Brazen_3133; 08-16-2019 at 10:30 AM..
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Old 08-16-2019, 10:18 AM
 
6,851 posts, read 6,740,930 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjshae View Post
If the person on Earth could watch the astronaut through a video feed, the astronaut would be moving very slowly. But from the astronaut's perspective, he is just moving about normally. It's like they are living in different universes with different time flows -- their own frames of reference. They each perceive they are aging normally, but see the other person as aging at a different rate.
Or perhaps they dont have leverage, and cannot apply enough force to move quickly. Like if one is on the moon, the gravity is less. So you fall slower, and cannot accelerate as fast jumping. Why is that seem as time slowing down?

Quote:
Originally Posted by harry chickpea View Post
Try thinking of it this way: We have experiential proof that clocks moving at increased physical speed while in orbit and then returned to Earth show as having run more slowly than identical clocks on Earth. Got that firmly in mind? Now think of those clocks being like old alarm clocks, ticking away the seconds. During the time in orbit the ticking is just a little slower. The same happens to the human heartbeat, as well as all the biological processes that make up aging.

The experience of time is a local phenomena, not a universal one. There is no standard universe clock that says it is now Blibbiddy billion years since the beginning of time at all points in the universe. "Now" is relative.

As for "Interstellar," that was a boring and not very good movie that lasted an eternity.
Interstellar is Inception in space, but without a heist plot.
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Old 08-16-2019, 10:22 AM
 
6,851 posts, read 6,740,930 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
Time is affected by both speed and gravity. The faster an object moves, the slower time moves for that object. The stronger a gravitational field is the more slowly time moves.

Now for two people who are standing still, time moves at the same rate for both of them. But if one person starts walking and the other person continues to stand still, time moves more slowly for the person who is walking than for the person standing still. Because time is moving more slowly for the person in motion, he ages more slowly than the person who is standing still.

Similarly, a difference of one foot of altitude produces a measurable difference in the rate at which time passes. The higher you go the weaker gravity is and therefore the faster time moves. This is discussed in the article below.

https://www.livescience.com/8672-higher-faster-age.html

If there was no time you wouldn't age. Therefore, due to relativity, the person for who time is moving more slowly ages more slowly than the person for whom time is passing more quickly.
If you are traveling at FTL, and speeding away from gravitational then what happens? Does time speed up since I am in low gravity or does time slow down because I move fast?
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Old 08-16-2019, 12:14 PM
 
Location: Seattle
2,258 posts, read 483,431 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rstevens62 View Post
I have a feeling if we ever achieved the tech to experiment with some of this stuff, LOTS of crazy bizarre effects would probably happen, some that took us totally by surprise too and some we could not understand.
We do see this stuff... in particle accelerators. For example, from our perspective a particle's decay slows down as it approaches the speed of light. The particle doesn't know we think it's going slower; it just decays at the same rate it always has.
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