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Old 07-27-2009, 11:20 AM
 
2,255 posts, read 5,389,809 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninjahedge
Where the heck do you get this garbage from? "other false religious terminology"?

Rational scientific theory and observation is religious? You equated science with radical extremism? (Jihad???)

Why do so many people fear Science so much they are willing to cast aspersions on the people who practice it rather than try to understand it itself?

BTW, do you even know what "theory" means? So many people believe that scientific theory is the same as social/popular theory. It isn't. Science is one of those ANNOYING thnigs that requires proof for even its theories. Hell, gravity is still a "theory" but I think most of us believe it is pertty factual at this point.

Anyway, the simple rule of science is this, if you can repeat it, there has to be a reason. If you CAN'T repeat it, then it is not so, no matter how much you FEEL it to be so.

In order to make something work in science, you have o know how you did it and be able to re-do it in the same way, otherwise there is no proof of the how or why.
I don't have the blind faith confidence in them as the many of the cult following of the Atheist & Agnostic gang do in this and other forums and their use of that too often used rediculous phraze "rationalism" (Must be because I find the conduct of many of them more often than not to be irrational than anything else) . I find zero difference between most religions - science (Big-Business) and Politics and all three are on equal footing as far as my opinion when it comes to destroying our planet Earth. And yet I am by profession and interest very involved in science because of Botany. But I've seen and experienced way too much to believe that when they (science) take a dump it always smells like roses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninjahedge
Anyway, back to OT.

the ful moon thing is bupkis. We do have monthly rhythms, but it is found that more things come by association with others than anything else. If someone is convinced that the full moon is mystic, people are more likely to be influenced by that persons opinion than by the actual moon itself (which does NOTHING MORE at full than simply reflect more sunlight. It is just as close, and it is right overhead at different times during the day/night all throughout its phases).

Well, that's about it! Have fun.....
Actually I'm not overly concerned with this subject in the first place. But it is an area where science cannot explain as yet things about such a possible phenomena and if anyone does'nt accept their present take on the subject then you must therefore be a complete imbecile.

Again, Whatever!!!
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Old 07-27-2009, 11:23 AM
 
46,891 posts, read 25,866,768 times
Reputation: 29355
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluepacific View Post
Isn't science with a Marxist take and perspective on things wonderful ???
Marxist? What are you on about?

Quote:
Darwin ???
Yes, Darwin. He thought "outside the box", challenged the orthodoxy of the day and ended up vindicated.

Did you know that Lord Kelvin proved how Darwin had to be wrong, because the sun couldn't possibly be that old? Of course Lord Kelvin was 100% wrong on what powered the sun, but the point is that Darwin took on the established view on how the world worked - and won.

Do the same with your moon hypothesis, and the accolades will come your way.

Quote:
A huge part of the problem of our planet's failing ecosystems systems is because of the Marxist direction this guy helped create and religion is right up there with him.
Darwin helped create a Marxist direction? Whut? Common Descent has no political direction, it just is.

Quote:
Perhaps you should listen to Carl Sagan's take on the differences between studying Astronomy and Astrology.
I am familiar with it, thanks. I hardlythink it supports your point in the slightest. Believing in the lunar cycle having an influence on psychological issues - with no tangible evidence to back it up - is akin to Astrology. Bring the numbers or accept that all you have is a hunch.
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Old 07-27-2009, 01:12 PM
 
Location: Home
1,482 posts, read 3,122,122 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluepacific View Post
I don't have the blind faith confidence in them as the many of the cult following of the Atheist & Agnostic gang do in this and other forums and their use of that too often used rediculous phraze "rationalism" (Must be because I find the conduct of many of them more often than not to be irrational than anything else) . I find zero difference between most religions - science (Big-Business) and Politics and all three are on equal footing as far as my opinion when it comes to destroying our planet Earth. And yet I am by profession and interest very involved in science because of Botany. But I've seen and experienced way too much to believe that when they (science) take a dump it always smells like roses.
You are so far off it isn't even funny. You are taking big businesses look at science, or the pseudo-scientific that yell and scream about everything and use that as an example of Science itself?

Most scientists were not popular people, because they looked at the popular belief (Sun rotates around the earth, because God made it that way) and object to it because of other observations (like the "loop" Mars does in the sky during its orbital path).

You are already categorizing the whole group of scientists into an anti-God cadre that somehow threatens your own belief? You know that MOST of the scientists of this, and previous times, were VERY religious people themselves? They just refused to believe God came in in 7 days and made everything. They wanted to find out God's "how". The "Why" is what most theologians are worried about, but as soon as THEY try to explain the "how" is where we get into all sorts of problems when it is discovered that their "how"s do not work.


BTW, please let me know how you get Marxism over evolution. I am sure that there are many species out there dying to learn how they were all influenced by those ideas in their own ecosystems patterned evolution.


Quote:
Actually I'm not overly concerned with this subject in the first place. But it is an area where science cannot explain as yet things about such a possible phenomena and if anyone doesn't accept their present take on the subject then you must therefore be a complete imbecile.

Again, Whatever!!!
Science cannot explain things that ARE NOT THERE. You have yet to site where this has been proven to be the case. All there is is speculative reasoning and no records WHATSOEVER. Here-say and conjecture are not even allowed in a court of LAW, nevermind science.

Please show some stats proving that these things do occur on regular, repeatable and most importantly ACCOUNTABLE intervals and maybe we can go a bit deeper.

But just a bunch of people saying that they think this is the case isn't going anywhere.
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Old 07-27-2009, 01:39 PM
 
2,255 posts, read 5,389,809 times
Reputation: 800
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninjahedge View Post
You are so far off it isn't even funny. You are taking big businesses look at science, or the pseudo-scientific that yell and scream about everything and use that as an example of Science itself?

Most scientists were not popular people, because they looked at the popular belief (Sun rotates around the earth, because God made it that way) and object to it because of other observations (like the "loop" Mars does in the sky during its orbital path).

You are already categorizing the whole group of scientists into an anti-God cadre that somehow threatens your own belief? You know that MOST of the scientists of this, and previous times, were VERY religious people themselves? They just refused to believe God came in in 7 days and made everything. They wanted to find out God's "how". The "Why" is what most theologians are worried about, but as soon as THEY try to explain the "how" is where we get into all sorts of problems when it is discovered that their "how"s do not work.
Okay you've lost me. What does your Creationism have anything to do with this ??? I don't believe in Creationism anyway. It's a rediculous political movement and I don't even like politics.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninja
BTW, please let me know how you get Marxism over evolution.
You mean there's a difference ??? Figure it out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninja
I am sure that there are many species out there dying to learn how they were all influenced by those ideas in their own ecosystems patterned evolution.
Wow, you actually believe there are species out there below us who are dwelling and meditating on this very does life have a purpose subject matter ???
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kungfu
Science cannot explain things that ARE NOT THERE. You have yet to site where this has been proven to be the case. All there is is speculative reasoning and no records WHATSOEVER. Here-say and conjecture are not even allowed in a court of LAW, nevermind science.

Please show some stats proving that these things do occur on regular, repeatable and most importantly ACCOUNTABLE intervals and maybe we can go a bit deeper.

But just a bunch of people saying that they think this is the case isn't going anywhere.
Did you even bother to read what I said about the actual subject. I DON'T CARE. I COULD CARE LESS ABOUT THE STUPID SUBJECT!!!

I only commented originally on what my Grandmother had to say about the subject because she was a nurse. She basically said the same thing and so did the police back then. I could'nt care less what science has to say about it or does'nt have to say about it. Sometimes listening to those who actually deal with the loons can mean more than any so-called informational rediculous stats from a lab. Again I don't care one way or another. I never said it was or it was'nt one way or the other. The only other comment is that it probably conflicts with all the geniuses thinking on science who were schooled along conventional lines.
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Old 07-27-2009, 01:57 PM
 
2,255 posts, read 5,389,809 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
Yes, Darwin. He thought "outside the box", challenged the orthodoxy of the day and ended up vindicated.
So what do you consider the box today ??? Darine changed the box and established a new philosophical box. But it does'nt make it right. We actually had a thread on that very subject. Thinking inside the box today is going along with the crowd and the conventional mindset way of modern day thinking on matters. Thinking outside of the box would be looking at a matter as a possiblility, although you can't exactly show or explain the usual behavior associated with a natural phenomena. It's almost like the subject of homeopathy and informational water. Most scientists say it's a fraud, hoax, etc and anyone who believes or follows it is an idiot for no other reason than they say so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane
Do the same with your moon hypothesis, and the accolades will come your way.
AGAIN , I DON'T CARE about some stupid moon effects on loonies one way or the other. Apparently you don't read the whole post, you pick and choose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane
I am familiar with it, thanks. I hardlythink it supports your point in the slightest. Believing in the lunar cycle having an influence on psychological issues - with no tangible evidence to back it up - is akin to Astrology. Bring the numbers or accept that all you have is a hunch.
This is like beating a dead horse. I DON'T GIVE A RAT'S BACK SIDE IF IT'S PROVED OR NOT. It's of no consequence to me. It only seems to be an issue with you. Take it up with someone who cares.
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Old 07-27-2009, 01:58 PM
 
Location: Arizona High Desert
4,792 posts, read 5,889,942 times
Reputation: 3103
I am an astrologer, and I have noticed that full moons in Scorpio, and Pisces are the most newsworthy. Scorpio rules sex, crime, and finances. Pisces rules jails, charity, hospitals, self undoing and the downtrodden. If the moon can have an effect on the tides, and we are made up of a lot of water, it stands to reason that some people can go nuts.
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Old 07-27-2009, 02:14 PM
 
Location: Home
1,482 posts, read 3,122,122 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluepacific View Post
Okay you've lost me. What does your Creationism have anything to do with this ??? I don't believe in Creationism anyway. It's a rediculous political movement and I don't even like politics.
You are talking about Agnostics Atheists and Marxism and you are not talking about religion and politics?

Could have fooled me.

Quote:
You mean there's a difference ??? Figure it out.
Not my responsibility. You made the assertion that Darwinism somehow related to the "Marxist" handling of the scientific community?

Quote:
Wow, you actually believe there are species out there below us who are dwelling and meditating on this very does life have a purpose subject matter ???
Did you even bother to read what I said about the actual subject. I DON'T CARE. I COULD CARE LESS ABOUT THE STUPID SUBJECT!!!
Then stop commenting on it. If you could care less, you would not respond. The minute you say "I could care less, but this is what I think" you care.

Quote:
I only commented originally on what my Grandmother had to say about the subject because she was a nurse. She basically said the same thing and so did the police back then.
People have their superstitions. And when rumor starts, it can be very powerful. People still knock on wood, keep their fingers crossed, throw salt over the shoulder and do a plethora of things that have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO with luck in order to try to influence the outcome when all it does is change their own perspective.

How is it any different with perceptions of others? If you think the moon will influence people, and you are more edgy around "lunatics", they will respond accordingly. But show me where the studies have been done, in an isolated room, with little to no contact in order to determine the behavior of people who are supposedly influenced by the moon.


Also, as I said before, the full moon is no different than the new moon. It is at the same distance, and we pass under it once a day as the earth rotates. :P

Quote:
I could'nt care less what science has to say about it or does'nt have to say about it. Sometimes listening to those who actually deal with the loons can mean more than any so-called informational rediculous stats from a lab. Again I don't care one way or another. I never said it was or it was'nt one way or the other. The only other comment is that it probably conflicts with all the geniuses thinking on science who were schooled along conventional lines.
Hmmm...

Bad Moon Rising: The Myth of the Full Moon - ABC News

Quote:
Studies have found that cops and hospital workers are among the strongest believers in the notion that more crime and trauma occur on nights when the moon is full. One 1995 University of New Orleans study found that as many as 81 percent of mental health professionals believe the myth.
But a growing body of evidence in the last 30 years has all but debunked the notion that nothing good can come from a full moon.

Last edited by Ninjahedge; 07-27-2009 at 02:22 PM..
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Old 07-27-2009, 02:21 PM
 
Location: Home
1,482 posts, read 3,122,122 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluepacific View Post
It's almost like the subject of homeopathy and informational water. Most scientists say it's a fraud, hoax, etc and anyone who believes or follows it is an idiot for no other reason than they say so.
It is, for the most part, a fraud. And the people that do believe it, without any proof, are pretty dumb for doing so.

Saying that having the opinion that hitting yourself in the head with a hammer is stupid and that all people DOING so are stupid is not an effective sympathetic counter argument to the original supposition that it may be somehow beneficial.

If a scientist says the head-hammerers are dumb, they may very well be dumb.

The problem is when people in Homeopathic medicine do not give anything to back up their beliefs other than conjecture and rumor. THAT is what bothers scientists and doctors. Someone saynig "because" is not a defense of any assertion that Ginko Baloba (sp) is good for you, or that Sharks Fin helps fertility.

Some HP remedies may have beneficial effects, but when something has not been researched (and placebo tested) it gets very difficult to seperate the actual treatments effects over what was done by the power of sugegstion and therefore it cannot be supported by the medical profession.

Why don't you look up all the homeopathic remedies for drunkeness and tell me which ones work. Better yet, just go do a Google of Mythbusters. They already tried.


Quote:
This is like beating a dead horse. I DON'T GIVE A RAT'S BACK SIDE IF IT'S PROVED OR NOT. It's of no consequence to me. It only seems to be an issue with you. Take it up with someone who cares.
You stop calling Science out and you will not get scientists defending it.
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Old 07-27-2009, 02:32 PM
 
2,255 posts, read 5,389,809 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninjahedge View Post
It is, for the most part, a fraud. And the people that do believe it, without any proof, are pretty dumb for doing so.

Saying that having the opinion that hitting yourself in the head with a hammer is stupid and that all people DOING so are stupid is not an effective sympathetic counter argument to the original supposition that it may be somehow beneficial.

If a scientist says the head-hammerers are dumb, they may very well be dumb.

The problem is when people in Homeopathic medicine do not give anything to back up their beliefs other than conjecture and rumor. THAT is what bothers scientists and doctors. Someone saynig "because" is not a defense of any assertion that Ginko Baloba (sp) is good for you, or that Sharks Fin helps fertility.

Some HP remedies may have beneficial effects, but when something has not been researched (and placebo tested) it gets very difficult to seperate the actual treatments effects over what was done by the power of sugegstion and therefore it cannot be supported by the medical profession.

Why don't you look up all the homeopathic remedies for drunkeness and tell me which ones work. Better yet, just go do a Google of Mythbusters. They already tried.
Maybe you should put this in another thread. However, title it informational water to cover all the bases. Otherwise this will go way off track here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninga
You stop calling Science out and you will not get scientists defending it.
Actually I will call science any way I see fit, depending on what it is of course. I don't simply have all the general blind faith in it that everyone else seems to. Our world is on the edge of collaspe and they are one third responsible with religion and politics making up the other two thirds.
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Old 07-27-2009, 02:40 PM
 
46,891 posts, read 25,866,768 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluepacific View Post
So what do you consider the box today ???
Why not go with the flow and say that arguing that the moon influences psychiatric behavior is a good example of thinking outside the box. It certainly runs counter to everything we think we know about the functions of the brain and how it would affect our behavior.

Quote:
Thinking inside the box today is going along with the crowd and the conventional mindset way of modern day thinking on matters. Thinking outside of the box would be looking at a matter as a possiblility, although you can't exactly show or explain the usual behavior associated with a natural phenomena.
If you can show it, you don't necessarily have to explain it. But if you want people to take it the slightest bit seriously, you really have to show it. Until then you don't have a "case that a natural phenomena" exists at all.

Quote:
It's almost like the subject of homeopathy and informational water. Most scientists say it's a fraud, hoax, etc and anyone who believes or follows it is an idiot for no other reason than they say so.
It is actually for an entirely different reason: No one has ever shown it to work. Nobody has extracted information from "informational water" without preknowledge.

Quote:
AGAIN , I DON'T CARE about some stupid moon effects on loonies one way or the other. Apparently you don't read the whole post, you pick and choose.
Ehm - you saw fit to bring it up.

Quote:
This is like beating a dead horse.
Indeed.

Quote:
I DON'T GIVE A RAT'S BACK SIDE IF IT'S PROVED OR NOT. It's of no consequence to me. It only seems to be an issue with you. Take it up with someone who cares.
You picked out the example to make your case that science and "rationalists" were basically religious categories. I really can't help it if you're posting stuff you don't want to talk about.

And I'm still scratching my head over the Marxism bit. That seemed - random.
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