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Old 08-13-2010, 08:48 PM
 
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Autistics don't lie, they don't cheat, they don't play mind games. Maybe we could learn something from them.

 
Old 08-13-2010, 08:54 PM
 
Location: NYC area
3,486 posts, read 5,054,186 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
Autistics don't lie, they don't cheat, they don't play mind games. Maybe we could learn something from them.
They are also incapable of the seething hatred I've seen coming from some of the so-called model parents here, who doubtless impart it to their non-disabled children.
 
Old 08-13-2010, 09:13 PM
 
Location: grooving in the city
7,371 posts, read 5,852,207 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
Autistics don't lie, they don't cheat, they don't play mind games. Maybe we could learn something from them.
There seem to be quite a few people here who could learn something from autistic people. Thanks for giving us so much info as the Grandma of a child with autism
 
Old 08-13-2010, 09:21 PM
 
Location: In a house
13,258 posts, read 36,253,393 times
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Yes, but if you really want to go down that route of rhetoric, how about we remember that some autistics are also capable of becoming physically agitated to the point where they bang their heads against the wall repeatedly, or scream, or run back and forth in aisles without any demonstrable knowledge of their surroundings or self-control. Some autistics are capable of starting to walk away from a restaurant table with the family, become overwhelmed, and just stand there while the waitress has to try and get around the child while carrying a huge platter of food on her shoulder.

Some autistics are capable of violence that someone else has to control on their behalf, and this violence can occur at what onlookers might think are random moments. Onlookers would have no idea why this is occuring. They would only know that it IS occuring.

Autistics are capable of a lot of things. Autistics are capable of being ignorant, and stupid, and anger. In these traits, they are not unlike anyone else. The difference, in those traits, are their method of expression. It has absolutely positively nothing to do with the fact that parents who have children that make sudden bursts of noise, need to accept that their children will be considered disruptive to people who are not making sudden bursts of noise. It also has absolutely positively nothing to do with the fact that some people, adults and children both, are not socially evolved enough to handle disruptions with grace.
 
Old 08-13-2010, 10:10 PM
 
2,605 posts, read 4,042,207 times
Reputation: 2165
Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
Update. I hope I did this right. This is the first time I have tried to quote this way since I had never seen that quote button.
Weston Man Accused Of "Restaurant Rage" - cbs4.com (http://cbs4.com/local/paul.blankfeld.olive.2.1850098.html - broken link)
Enough info for you?

Dorothy
Hey, it works!! Cool.

Trouble is, all the sentences begin with 'Bennett', the father. There is no account from the other guy. Just the fact that Bennett went to the media and made a point of focusing on his son's autism tells me it's a very, very one sided story.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aconite View Post
Okay. But it's pretty darned ignorant to hit idiots, too.
And yanno, if someone-- an alleged adult-- is going to act like he's three, he loses all credibility in complaining about a kid acting like he's three.
Can't argue with that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redisca View Post
They are also incapable of the seething hatred I've seen coming from some of the so-called model parents here, who doubtless impart it to their non-disabled children.
You would like it to be 'seething hatred', but the fact is, it isn't. There is a world of difference between seething hatred and indifference. A spectrum, you might say. You know all about spectrums, right? Think of adoration on one end and seething hatred on the other. Indifference would be somewhere in the middle.

It's easy to cry and condemn someone with 'seething hatred', but what can you do with indifference? Not a darn thing, so you use the hatred stuff to make yourself feel better because we all don't agree that the world should stop and take notice because someone is autistic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnonChick View Post
Yes, but if you really want to go down that route of rhetoric, how about we remember that some autistics are also capable of becoming physically agitated to the point where they bang their heads against the wall repeatedly, or scream, or run back and forth in aisles without any demonstrable knowledge of their surroundings or self-control. Some autistics are capable of starting to walk away from a restaurant table with the family, become overwhelmed, and just stand there while the waitress has to try and get around the child while carrying a huge platter of food on her shoulder.

Some autistics are capable of violence that someone else has to control on their behalf, and this violence can occur at what onlookers might think are random moments. Onlookers would have no idea why this is occuring. They would only know that it IS occuring.

Autistics are capable of a lot of things. Autistics are capable of being ignorant, and stupid, and anger. In these traits, they are not unlike anyone else. The difference, in those traits, are their method of expression. It has absolutely positively nothing to do with the fact that parents who have children that make sudden bursts of noise, need to accept that their children will be considered disruptive to people who are not making sudden bursts of noise. It also has absolutely positively nothing to do with the fact that some people, adults and children both, are not socially evolved enough to handle disruptions with grace.
Exactly!!!! As difficult as it is for some to hear, this is the truth. When I think of autistic, it isn't the spectrum that has been made up recently, but it is the severe autism that restricts a person from being someone who would ever remotely be able to enter a restaurant for any reason.
 
Old 08-13-2010, 11:02 PM
 
16,019 posts, read 17,806,901 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoExcuses View Post
Hey, it works!! Cool.


It's easy to cry and condemn someone with 'seething hatred', but what can you do with indifference? Not a darn thing, so you use the hatred stuff to make yourself feel better because we all don't agree that the world should stop and take notice because someone is autistic.
Exactly!!!! As difficult as it is for some to hear, this is the truth. When I think of autistic, it isn't the spectrum that has been made up recently, but it is the severe autism that restricts a person from being someone who would ever remotely be able to enter a restaurant for any reason.
Like Amanda Baggs?


YouTube - In My Language

Make sure you watch the second part as well as the first part.
 
Old 08-14-2010, 05:00 AM
miu
 
Location: MA/NH
17,104 posts, read 34,528,599 times
Reputation: 16148
Richard Bennett:
Quote:
"He commented that I needed to keep my son quiet. I responded that he had autism, and I was trying to keep him as quiet as possible." "He made a disparaging remark about my son, and next thing I know he jumps up from the table and charges me."
Quote:
Originally Posted by [B
AnonChick[/b]]I saw the news video interviewing the parents of the kid, and they themselves say that they tried to explain to the man that it's an autistic child. They acknowledged, excused and justified the fact that their kid was being disruptive. The guy asked a second time - according to the parents, and the parents said they're keeping the kid as quiet as possible, and repeated that he's autistic. Again - acknowledging that a problem exists, dismissing the guy's complaint, and excusing their child's behavior.

The man had no business laying a hand on the father. He was absolutely positively wrong, without any doubt whatsoever. But it seems pretty clear to me, based on the parents' interview, that the parents feel that their son's being autistic, excuses the family and gives them carte blanche to be disruptive to other people.
I think what this news story and this thread shows is the rift between parents who can't control their children and the rest of society that is tired of putting up with the ill behaviour. Especially if those other people had good firm and considerate parents that made us (as children) well behaved in public.

Then there are the parents of unruly kids, or kids with issues and they get tired of being a parent 24/7. So they decide that they need a night out and for whatever reason, they take their children out with them when leaving them at home with a babysitter would have been a better decision. I don't understand why the Bennetts would think that taking their autistic child out to Olive Garden was a good idea? To practice good manners? And realistically, will their autistic child ever grow up to be an adult that is capable of going to Olive Garden on his own?

And instead of the term "model parents" being used sarcastically, more parents have to acknowledge that they just aren't very good at being parents, and they do need to feel guilty over their lack of good parenting skills and work on turning their families around. And these parents also need to be more considerate of everyone else around them.

I suppose the reasons for bad parents are because being a good parent is not an innate talent. And there is no mandatory good parenting skills classes for new parents. Also in our society, a lack of one parent being able to be a dedicated stay-at-home parent, and in this particular story, no good solution to having a child with an issue like autism. And without be able to solve these issues, I think that more couples need to realize that not everyone should be a parent. There are billions too many people presently living on this planet. Humans are crowding out other life forms and trashing the earth. And billions of humans are presently living a sub-standard lifestyle. If there were less people on this planet, the rest of the humans could work and actually make progress towards every human having an overall better quality of life.
 
Old 08-14-2010, 05:07 AM
miu
 
Location: MA/NH
17,104 posts, read 34,528,599 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robee70 View Post
Good judgment...

a) tell the manager that he either moves them or you to another table
b) tell the manager that you demand your money back, because you are having an unpleasant dining experience
c) tell the manager that the child is being TOO loud and for him to do something about it.
d) don't eat at Olive Garden, Chili's, TGIF's when there are young kids present, because it WILL get noisy

To me this has nothing to do with whether the child was Autistic or not, but that this man thought he was too loud.

Should the father have done something? ...yes.
Should the manager have done something if the child was unusually loud?...yes.
Should the man that assaulted the father have taken it upon himself to carry out his own private vigilante justice, because he perceived someone else's child as being inapproporiate and too loud for HIM? Absolutely NOT.

ETA: My opinion is that even a girl's poor judgment will NEVER be an excuse for rape.
But the bigger issue is that the manager of a restaurant in this sort of situation shouldn't have to get involved. The parents of the unruly children ought to immediately be feeling badly for their child or children being disruptive. The parents of these noisy children should know all on their own that they need to quiet their kids ASAP, and if they can't then take the chaos out of the restaurant.

The real problem is the amazing lack of consideration that these parents of ill-behaved children have for the rest of the world around them. And what down the line is that these children don't grown out of their bad behaviour, but that they think it acceptable behaviour and they become inconsiderate adults who make more inconsiderate children...
 
Old 08-14-2010, 06:58 AM
 
Location: Beautiful Upstate NY!
13,819 posts, read 25,127,572 times
Reputation: 7615
Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
Update. I hope I did this right. This is the first time I have tried to quote this way since I had never seen that quote button.

Weston Man Accused Of "Restaurant Rage" - cbs4.com (http://cbs4.com/local/paul.blankfeld.olive.2.1850098.html - broken link)









Enough info for you?

Dorothy
You missed the most telling quote of the article by the attacked father:

"Somebody could have been seriously hurt over a four year-old autistic child in a restaurant who has every right to be there," Sonia Bennett said. "I'm against violence of any kind, but the biggest lesson here is that I have to be an advocate for my child who has autism."

This guy was on an agenda to force his problem down others throats.
 
Old 08-14-2010, 11:57 AM
 
Location: Corydon, IN
3,684 posts, read 4,267,138 times
Reputation: 7524
You know, I've been reading through these posts from beginning to end and while as a human being and a parent I'm forced to try to see BOTH sides of the issue which has risen here, as that same human being I've really noticed one thing here which I suspect is more true than many people out there will ever bother taking the time to think about, let alone seriously evaluate.


As a society (meaning human civilization overall and most especially Western civilization) the last several decades really have seen a downward trend in a little thing I like to call "personal accountability". On the other hand I've seen a correlating downward trend in education, meaningful compassion (as in personal and interactive rather than politically motivated) and the ability to relate to one another socially and publicly.

I, as a person who has to go outside; I, who possess a perfectly legitimate RIGHT to attend public venues such as movies and restaurants; I, who want to enjoy my experiences in these places...

I frequently find my experience ruined by bad kids who clearly have enjoyed a lack of discipline or firm, considerate parenting which takes the public enjoyment experience of those around them into account.

Let me reiterate: I have found on many occasions my experience of these public venues ruined by BAD KIDS.


I've certainly had my experience interrupted by kids or adults with disabilities -- but THAT is entirely different in my eyes than those experiences which were ruined by bad kids.


Reading through the posts and replies in this thread I think a lot of you have forgotten the difference between a bad kid and a child who honestly doesn't know any better or cannot help an action/reaction, forgotten the difference between a parent who is either rude or openly negligent and a parent who, whether you agree or not, has a RIGHT to go somewhere nice on occasion.

I have to admit I'd likely not risk taking an autistic child to a movie, just as I wouldn't take a three- or four-year-old who wasn't yet at an age where they'd be able to control themselves in the event of tiredness, anxiety, fear -- any potential adverse action or reaction. I wouldn't do so because a movie requires quiet and courtesy in order to garner the full experience.

And believe me, I've had PLENTY of movies ruined by punks who KNOW better, who sit as teens throwing popcorn or kicking chairs, all the while safe and secure in the knowledge that you can't grab them and beat their asses as they FULLY deserve. No, be civilized; go get the manager!

The manager won't rewind that movie just for me, will he? No, the experience is still ruined for me AND the punks really don't learn the GOOD lesson they deserve, that good people won't always tolerate that crap.

Now... a restaurant? Sorry, I'll be taking my potentially unruly three-year-old to that restaurant whether you like it or not. Oh, to be sure I'll try to keep a firm hand, and to be sure I'll try to hit dinner early so as to avoid the adult dining crowd.

But kids sometimes act up and it's NOT controllable all the time. If you spank them, you're a right git who risks losing because some busybody has 9-1-1 on speed dial and can't tell the difference between a swat on the backside and turning another human into pounded, insensate goo. If you DON'T spank, people are huffing in offense because you're not "handling" the situation which is inconveniencing THEM.

Just how far is everyone else supposed to bend over backward just to ensure YOUR dining experience?

Anyone who's ever been a PARENT knows this; you do your best and sometimes timing doesn't work out. Sometimes it inconveniences others and you're in a position to opt out. I know that I've removed my son from the grocery cart and left shopping to his mother while I took him to the car to avoid a public display.

Other times, such as when things have been fine but your food arrives and NOW the child chooses to act up...

I think if I'd been that child's father, the attacked one in the article, I'd have done my best to appease and reason with the other guy, BUT if he'd kept the mouthing up I'd likely also have told him to shut his love-hole before I rammed his teeth down his gullet and showed him the REAL meaning of inconvenience.

I think many of you here... well, I'm basically misanthropic anyway, for all the compassion I do try to show. I think many of you here need your heads slapped good and hard to remind you there are other people outside your egocentrism and you DEFINITELY need to stay the hell away from me if you're ranting about an autistic child and you can't tell the difference between a disability and general poor behaviour. You're barely human yourselves, it appears.
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