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This story was posted because, afterall, this is a topic of SPECIAL NEEDS CHILDREN- not because of media manipulation. My posting of this story was not to imply that we should not be upset if this were a non-autistic child. That's a reach on your part. If you read my response, you would have (or should've) clearly understood that I believed the customer had a right to complain but that he did other options rather than get physical. Oh by the way, the story was local (for me, anyways) so I may have had more of an interest in it than others.
What you are implying, seeing this is a special needs section, is that the man who had the problem with the autistic child is "ignorance at it's worse(t)".
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Originally Posted by nana053
You're a real winner. A little compassion for the parents might be helpful.
Maybe so, but it's true. The parents are who should have the compassion for the public at large.
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Originally Posted by Aconite
I agree that if a child is truly disruptive, s/he should be removed from the restaurant, regardless of age, disability, or anything else.
However, I will also suggest that assaulting another restaurant patron because you couldn't enjoy your ravioli is ignorance at its worst. All he needed to do-- as someone else said-- is complain to the manager. The manager would likely have assumed responsibility for dealing with the disruptive parties and refunded him the cost of his meal for his trouble. Instead, we have a "verbal exchange" ending in physical assault, a.k.a. testosterone spill on aisle four.
I agree that the assault should not have happened. The father, on the other hand should have been more thoughtful of those at other tables and the request to keep his son under control.
I don't believe there's any such thing as being oversensitive to discrimination. If someone is discriminating, especially against a child, then there is every right to defend.
However, I still feel that the parents in this case could have avoided the outraged diner, by -not- excusing/dismissing their son's behavior by playing the autism card and instead, stood up with their heads held high, explained briefly with an apology for disrupting the meal (since obviously you can't expect the child to apologize), and moved their son out of earshot. It could even have just been the dad taking the kid to the men's room and sitting him in a stall (assuming Olive Garden mens' rooms are tolerable - I'm not a man so I wouldn't know ), which I understand might be that "closed in space" that autistic kids sometimes need when they're feeling overwhelmed.
I DO understand why the man was annoyed, and irritated, and impatient. I totally and completely get it and I would've been annoyed, irritated, and impatient as well. THis doesn't justify, explain, or excuse his lashing out in violence. But the parents' telling him that their son is autistic doesn't justify, explain, or excuse their continuing to sit there with their child being disruptive.
Personally , after seeing the published police report , I think these parents were dealing with a class A jerk and nothing they could have done would have pleased him..
With that being said I do think the parents were right to say to the individual that thier son has autism (and proberly expected him to give them some space about it )As most parents of autistic children that I know do -- I'm sure they were doing everything they could already to deal with thier son).
My experience with matters like this when they have occured ( which is rare ), is I try to do everything humanly possible to keep my son from disturbing other people and under control...There are times though ,when I cannot control things and we still have to go about living our lives, be it grocery shopping , taking the car to the mechanics or eating in a resturant... I refuse to live our life in seclusion because my son has autism ..
Sadly, there are people out there who don't want any child with any disabilty out there in public at all . It is a chilling experience when you come across someone like that and I think this guy maybe one of those individuals.
Hearing about this, makes me truely appreciate the kind people my son encounters daily( strangers , neighbors, the clerks at grocery stores, the managers at resturants) .
I think where some of the conflict between posters arises in this thread is that some of us try really hard not to do anything that might interfere with other people's good time (including not taking our dogs, children, etc, out if they can't be trusted to behave), so it really pisses us off when other people can't bother to take the same trouble. And other people take the attitude that when you're out in public, you run the risk of people behaving badly (and that's acceptable because we are all humans and should learn to be patient).
The parents excuse here is the child's autism whereas the real problem is their failure to discipline those kids.
I don't condone the assault, but parents with unruly children should stay home and not visit their burden on others, whatever the venue.
This goes to show that you have no clue what it's like dealing with an autistic child.
My son has autism. He's not unruly at all but if he gets something in his head that he's not willing to do, or that he wants to do, there is nothing in the world that we can do or say to change his mind.
Disciplining our son will never make him understand something he is not capable of understanding. You should educate yourself on autism so that you can better understand the autistic person.
Personally , after seeing the published police report , I think these parents were dealing with a class A jerk and nothing they could have done would have pleased him..
With that being said I do think the parents were right to say to the individual that thier son has autism (and proberly expected him to give them some space about it )As most parents of autistic children that I know do -- I'm sure they were doing everything they could already to deal with thier son).
My experience with matters like this when they have occured ( which is rare ), is I try to do everything humanly possible to keep my son from disturbing other people and under control...There are times though ,when I cannot control things and we still have to go about living our lives, be it grocery shopping , taking the car to the mechanics or eating in a resturant... I refuse to live our life in seclusion because my son has autism ..
Sadly, there are people out there who don't want any child with any disability out there in public at all. It is a chilling experience when you come across someone like that and I think this guy maybe one of those individuals.
Hearing about this, makes me truely appreciate the kind people my son encounters daily( strangers , neighbors, the clerks at grocery stores, the managers at resturants) .
It would be nice if this discussion would not focus on whether this child has Autism or not. There are more unruly and undisciplined children without any disabilities whatsoever. Most of the parents of Autistic children that I know, recognize their children's limits and avoid overwhelming them, not for the public benefit but for the child's benefit.
You are so right. We know our sons limits and we try to avoid places that set him off. Our som is OK 99% of the time and only a few things get to him.
His was taught in school that smoke in a fire will kill you. If we go to the zoo or the aquarium and the have one of those misters that make the water look like smoke there is nothing in the world that we can do to make him walk through it.
He is also deadly afraid of banana plants because he thinks that they are reaching out and trying to get him. You wont be able to get him past one even if it is a fake banana plant.
Noise gets to him and you can see him shutting down when it gets to noisy. We were eating at the Rain Forest Cafe and when the animals came out the walls and the noise kicked in he ran out the restaurant and I had to chase him down the street. He would not go back in so we had to take our food to go and eat it on the boardwalk. My wife and I didn't know this about the restaurant or else we would have never made him try and eat there.
But like I said , 99% of the time he is OK and can function without a problem.
This is an attitude I don't understand. Mgt is not in the business of judging anyones parenting. They will not say anything to a parent unless the situation becomes dangerous (kids running around creating a potential hazard) or until they are forced to act because of complaints by other patrons. Usually by that time the disturbance has gotten way out of hand.
What's not to understand. A restaurant that prefers to cater to a crowd with younger children; crayons, (Chili's once encouraged doodling on their paper tablecloths), music, fun, birthday songs are going to only get involved when a child is acting beyong a range of normal behavior. People that don't like that will have to deal with it or find an alternate restaurant. A restaurant that promotes a different environment will absolutely get involved and/or turn you away at the door (if you are dressed not to their standards, for example).
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I would hope most parents would be considerate enough to try to handle the problem before it got so bad that mgt had to step in. They know that parents who show such disregard for others are probably going to be confrontational when approached and it's a situation best to be avoided if possible. Why do you think in many cases they will buy off an unhappy diner by waiving the bill, rather than attempting to oust the disruptive family.
The only one who caused a disruption, from what I have understood, is the man. Please point out to me where the other diners and/or the manager said the child was disruptively noisy. I'm sure no one here expects kids at a family restaurant to be completely quiet or whisper.
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I don't think anyone has said it's okay to assault parents over their childrens behavior.
It's like terrorism:
You can say - "Terrorism is unacceptable - Period" or you can say "Terrorism is unacceptable, but if they". Many appeared to be subtly or not so subtly adding a but.
What's not to understand. A restaurant that prefers to cater to a crowd with younger children; crayons, (Chili's once encouraged doodling on their paper tablecloths), music, fun, birthday songs are going to only get involved when a child is acting beyong a range of normal behavior. People that don't like that will have to deal with it or find an alternate restaurant. A restaurant that promotes a different environment will absolutely get involved and/or turn you away at the door (if you are dressed not to their standards, for example).
You seemed to be saying that it's a mgt responsibility to decide when a child is too loud, and that it's okay for parent to be oblivious to the disruption unless it gets to the level that mgt needs to step in. I'm saying that PARENTS need to ensure that their children are within that 'normal range', not leave it up to mgt to decide for them that they've gone beyond what's acceptable. Frankly as long as nobody else complains the mgr probably doesn't care how loud kids get, as long as they're buying his food.
It's not up to management to decide which kids are too loud, they aren't there to take it upon themselves to judge other peoples behavior, and will only act if other customers complain. And yes I'm speaking only of child friendly places, I thought that was obvious.
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Originally Posted by robee70
The only one who caused a disruption, from what I have understood, is the man. Please point out to me where the other diners and/or the manager said the child was disruptively noisy. I'm sure no one here expects kids at a family restaurant to be completely quiet or whisper.
I wasn't referring to this specific incident. The point was that parents should not let their children be so disruptive and let it last for such a length of time that mgt is compelled to step in. Any parent that lets it get to that point is not doing their job as a parent.
You can ask a manager to rectify the situtaion...but the problem is...is that the managers in half these places are 19 year old kids, who really don't give a ****, and probably were diagnosed, themselves, as ADHD when they were in school.
If your kid is spinning plates in the corner and detached from the world...he's autistic. Autism, ADHD and asperger's are all thrown around today like it's a badge of courage. IMO, behind the large majority of these diagnosis' is just plain bad parenting situations...and the bad parent(s) is way to quick to pass that off as a medical problem.
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), which I understand might be that "closed in space" that autistic kids sometimes need when they're feeling overwhelmed.
