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If this is just about kids with special needs, then the thread needs to be moved - to the special needs forum. No one here wanted to know what parents that do not have special needs kids thought - they just wanted to preach about how they're right.
The issue IS that some people who benefit from accommodations get them and others who benefit from them don't get them and the kids are competing directly against each other. If someone has a physical limitation that makes writing take longer that's one thing.
There are processing disorders that cause people to take longer to write. My son takes forever to write with a pen or pencil in hand, but he writes like a master using a keyboard. Many years of occupational therapy didn't fully overcome whatever processing disorder that made writing with pen and pencil difficult for him. His writing improved but never became equal to his peers.
For years, we simply thought he wasn't a very talented writer. His difficulty writing with pen and pencil caused a great challenge getting his thoughts written out on paper with pencil and pen. Once he started college, all term papers and essays were reqired to typed. THAT'S when we discovered he is an EXTREMELY talented writer!
Why should a physical limitation override a mental limitation if both result in the same disability? It shouldn't. Just because YOU can't see the disability doesn't mean it's not real.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momma_bear
If a person can't read well, for whatever reason, their test scores should reflect that. Standardized tests are supposed to measure people's performance on a test under standard conditions. If lots of folks are not being held to the same standard (the word is STANDARDIZED) then the results cease to be valid.
My son tests very well, better than most people. He gets done way before other students---and his answers are always above the 90th percentile. He can use pencil or pen to write out short answers or fill in bullets. No problem. If there's an essay portion, his true talent in writing won't be accurately depicted using a pen or pencil--even if he were given extra time. The accomodation my son would need (which he doesn't get and wouldn't use anyway) has nothing to do with time. It has to do with the writing instrument.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sskkc
If this is just about kids with special needs, then the thread needs to be moved - to the special needs forum. No one here wanted to know what parents that do not have special needs kids thought - they just wanted to preach about how they're right.
I believe this thread needs to be moved.
But this thread is about regular education students who are being cheated by accomodations of others.
Why should a physical limitation override a mental limitation if both result in the same disability? It shouldn't. Just because YOU can't see the disability doesn't mean it's not real.
I never said a disability is not real. Never.
However, a standardized test is NOT STANDARDIZED if many different accommodations are present at test time.
If a test is meant to measure how well a student reads and answers questions, in a particular time frame then that is what it should measure. If there are significantly different test conditions for different test takers then the test ceases to be standardized. If you are studying education I am sure you know that.
Standardized test are NOT the same as classroom tests, which are meant to measure content knowledge and should absolutely be designed so that all students have the opportunity to demonstrate content knowledge.
Out of curiosity I looked up what affect if any accomodations actually have. I was quite surprised to find from multiple sources that with only one real exception accomodations had almost no impact on the performance of disabled and non-disabled students.
When it came to the time accomodation, scores were not impacted by it, but students reported feeling better about the test and being less nervous.
The read aloud accomodation was the only one that had a measurable affect for both groups. Scores increased for 50% of disabled students and 38% of non-disabled students when the tests were read aloud.
This was very interesting to me. If the accomodations generally don't change the scores, why should we even care if they are given? Also, if they have no impact, why give them in the first place? It would also appear that maybe we should use the read aloud accomodation on all testing.
Also, the current laws as they are crafted invalidate test results given with accomodations that are not also given in the normal class room setting. So, if a child doesn't require an accomodation per their IEP for regular testing and instruction, they should not be given accomodations on standardized testing. However, there is a trend where more and more students without IEP accomodation are being given accomodation on standard tests.
"However, a standardized test is NOT STANDARDIZED if many different accommodations are present at test time. If a test is meant to measure how well a student reads and answers questions, in a particular time frame then that is what it should measure."
True, but the tests are meant to measure whether a kid mastered a subject or not, not how fast they can do it. The time allotted is merely an average given, that most can complete the test during. If a child has a learning difficulty that makes it more difficult to read, or difficult to focus in certain conditions, why should they fail the test when the problem was not the material, but the time allotted to complete it?
Let's make a deal if it bothers you so much...I'll trade my son's extra time to take a test anyday if yours will take his disability.
"However, a standardized test is NOT STANDARDIZED if many different accommodations are present at test time. If a test is meant to measure how well a student reads and answers questions, in a particular time frame then that is what it should measure."
True, but the tests are meant to measure whether a kid mastered a subject or not, not how fast they can do it. The time allotted is merely an average given, that most can complete the test during. If a child has a learning difficulty that makes it more difficult to read, or difficult to focus in certain conditions, why should they fail the test when the problem was not the material, but the time allotted to complete it?
Let's make a deal if it bothers you so much...I'll trade my son's extra time to take a test anyday if yours will take his disability.
NO-Tests like the SAT are not the same as classroom tests, which are designed to measure mastery of content. The SAT does not measure content mastery.
Wow, I'm so impressed with the answers! It is a shame! As we all know, Spartans just threw the babies they thought are not perfect from the cliff. Isn't it the easiest way to solve the problem? No need to have the special test accommodations. Only "perfect" has a right to survive...
But, of course, it kills the creativity - no Beethoven or Edison, no Nobel prizes, just the soldiers. STANDARD soldiers...
My sincere thanks go to Hopes and the very last post - thanks so much for speaking up. Most of the parents of the "veeeery special children" do not seek any special accommodations to get their child to Harward - they just try to get by and make sure their child gets a good education - sometimes even high school diploma becomes a challenge...
I don't want my kids to be the doctors with ADD - I just wanted them to be self-sufficient, independent and happy.
Speaking from my personal experience,
mom to 2 sons - an Ivy League Student and a challenging learning disabled middle schooler (both on the med school dream track)
This thread seriously needed to die, I hate when people play necro. This thread became irrelevant after it was moved to the SPED forum. The only opinions in this forum are biased and one sided. It's like asking santa's elves if they like christmas.
Colleges do accomodate. It's the law. I'm in school right now. In every class there are a few students who leave the room to take tests elsewhere.
They're not asking the 'real world' to cater to them. They merely want an education. There are plenty of careers they can have that won't require accomodations, but a college degree is required to get those jobs. Just because they need accomodations in high school and college is no indication that they can't be the best pharmaceutical sales representative. Afterall, they could have an outstanding, outgoing sales personality that the 'standard' students dont' possess. Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses and each person deserves an opportunity to find a career that best fits their strengths. There are many professional careers perfectly suited for people with ADD.
People need to realize that one size education doesn't fit all. The type of people who perform well in school aren't necessarily the type of people who perform well in the real world. School, especially high school, is geared towards producing drone workers, not thinkers and leaders. If you spent a day in the top private schools that affluent spent a fortune educating their children, you would see the difference between teaching leaders and thinkers and teaching drones at public schools. The standardized nightmare doesn't exist in the top private schools throughout the counry. Individuality is celebrated at the top private schools. And these are the people who become our leaders and thinkers The schools are designed to prepare them for it and that's why their parents pay top dollar for their children to attend those schools. And yeah, THEY are the ones who are getting the spots at the top universities. If anyone wants to complain about unfair advantage, they would do better to complain about the wealthy buying superior education for their children instead of a measly 2% using accomodations for the SAT. LOL
Exactly. The ignorance on this board is sickening. We all have some type of handicap no matter how perfect we think we are. If special needs children need extra accommodations so they can have the same shot at success as everyone else, so what? I say, give it to them.
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