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American kids are the most overdosed, over medicated, and over coddled and accommodated kids in the world. Every body is way too "special". I think the stats are that diagnoses have gone up 300% for "special needs".
Now it's no longer ADHD, it's Asperger's. There is no way we will continue to be competitive on a world basis if we keep dong this to our kids.
Watch GenerationRX if you want to see an interesting documentary. Netflix has it.
If they're going to get extra time or help, then it should be notated. Without that notation, it defeats the purpose of "standardized" testing - which is supposed to rate everyone, according to their ability, within the given time frame. If someone wants 'special' treatment, then they should get it.
Just with anything, I am tired of every 'special' group in this country rallying for 'equal' treatment, when what they really want is 'special' treatment.
The physically disabled don't get to compete in the regular Olympics and get 'extra time' to run a mile, for the consideration of their disability. In a courtroom setting, they won't get an extra recess to look up a file and while having a patient lying on an operating table, their patient doesn't give them 'extra time' to figure out why they're bleeding to death or why their brain isn't getting enough oxygen.
I do not believe they should get extra time, but if they're going to get it, the test should be marked/notated as such. This would be taking affirmative action waaaay too far.
College is not going to accomodate, the tests to get into college shouldn't either.
Colleges do accomodate. It's the law. I'm in school right now. In every class there are a few students who leave the room to take tests elsewhere.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeavingMassachusetts
Time to start learning how to be a grown up, the real world won't cater to you either.
They're not asking the 'real world' to cater to them. They merely want an education. There are plenty of careers they can have that won't require accomodations, but a college degree is required to get those jobs. Just because they need accomodations in high school and college is no indication that they can't be the best pharmaceutical sales representative. Afterall, they could have an outstanding, outgoing sales personality that the 'standard' students dont' possess. Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses and each person deserves an opportunity to find a career that best fits their strengths. There are many professional careers perfectly suited for people with ADD.
People need to realize that one size education doesn't fit all. The type of people who perform well in school aren't necessarily the type of people who perform well in the real world. School, especially high school, is geared towards producing drone workers, not thinkers and leaders. If you spent a day in the top private schools that affluent spent a fortune educating their children, you would see the difference between teaching leaders and thinkers and teaching drones at public schools. The standardized nightmare doesn't exist in the top private schools throughout the counry. Individuality is celebrated at the top private schools. And these are the people who become our leaders and thinkers The schools are designed to prepare them for it and that's why their parents pay top dollar for their children to attend those schools. And yeah, THEY are the ones who are getting the spots at the top universities. If anyone wants to complain about unfair advantage, they would do better to complain about the wealthy buying superior education for their children instead of a measly 2% using accomodations for the SAT. LOL
Colleges do accomodate. It's the law. I'm in school right now. In every class there are a few students who leave the room to take tests elsewhere.
They're not asking the 'real world' to cater to them. They merely want an education. There are plenty of careers they can have that won't require accomodations, but a college degree is required to get those jobs. Just because they need accomodations in high school and college is no indication that they can't be the best pharmaceutical sales representative. Afterall, they could have an outstanding, outgoing sales personality that the 'standard' students dont' possess. Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses and each person deserves an opportunity to find a career that best fits their strengths. There are many professional careers perfectly suited for people with ADD.
People need to realize that one size education doesn't fit all. The type of people who perform well in school aren't necessarily the type of people who perform well in the real world. School, especially high school, is geared towards producing drone workers, not thinkers and leaders. If you spent a day in the top private schools that affluent spent a fortune educating their children, you would see the difference between teaching leaders and thinkers and teaching drones at public schools. The standardized nightmare doesn't exist in the top private schools throughout the counry. Individuality is celebrated at the top private schools. And these are the people who become our leaders and thinkers The schools are designed to prepare them for it and that's why their parents pay top dollar for their children to attend those schools. And yeah, THEY are the ones who are getting the spots at the top universities. If anyone wants to complain about unfair advantage, they would do better to complain about the wealthy buying superior education for their children instead of a measly 2% using accomodations for the SAT. LOL
In theory, Hopes, all of your claims are correct. In reality, every doped up kid without a problem other than lazy parents and a over-coddling society will be lining up to get an exception. It is no different than them all lining up to get an Rx because little Johnny doesn't listen.
American kids are the most overdosed, over medicated, and over coddled and accommodated kids in the world. Every body is way too "special". I think the stats are that diagnoses have gone up 300% for "special needs".
Now it's no longer ADHD, it's Asperger's. There is no way we will continue to be competitive on a world basis if we keep dong this to our kids.
Watch GenerationRX if you want to see an interesting documentary. Netflix has it.
True. I have a feeling that kids in Europe where the schools are far ahead of ours, don't have as many kids doped up on drugs and diagnosed with the fad learning disabilities we have here.
In the USA, much more money is thrown at education but we're slipping fast in the rankings. Large numbers of kids graduate without meeting minimal standards in literacy, math, and science.
What happens to these kids someday when they want to be programmers but need extra time to finish their tasks and the programmers from India can get the job done in the expected time?
Poorly performing schools tend to get a lot more kids into special ed and labeled with learning disabilities.
In theory, Hopes, all of your claims are correct. In reality, every doped up kid without a problem other than lazy parents and a over-coddling society will be lining up to get an exception. It is no different than them all lining up to get an Rx because little Johnny doesn't listen.
So what do we do, let the kids that really need the help and would benefit from this fall through the cracks because we can't tell the difference between kids that deserve it and the kids that have lazy parents?
So what do we do, let the kids that really need the help and would benefit from this fall through the cracks because we can't tell the difference between kids that deserve it and the kids that have lazy parents?
So what do we do, let the kids that really need the help and would benefit from this fall through the cracks because we can't tell the difference between kids that deserve it and the kids that have lazy parents?
No - not let them fall through the cracks. Exempt them from the test if you want but then make sure the schools report their rates of special ed, and the test scores, along with drop out rates or non-attendance rates for a real evaluation of the progress the school is making.
It's usually the schools that start pushing kids into special ed and a whole lot of them are not actually learning disabled. They may require more stimulating classrooms, more hands-on learning, some recess time.
It's really not fair to have one school with many more kids in special ed being given extra time and assistance so the students pass compared with a school that is really teaching and not making excuses for failing to do so.
These tests are nothing but tests for minimal skills, nothing advanced. They aren't the SAT, they test for basic minimal literacy and math skills.
There is a really big difference between accommodating a true disability and coddling a child who has trouble focusing.
When I was in school I mentored a student who had a physical disability that prevented him from writing adequately. I was permitted to write his homework on staff paper for him and have him hand in the homework. He took the same tests as everyone else but he took them in the professor's office and the graduate assistant who was assigned to that professor recorded his anwers. Since telling someone else what to write and waiting for that person to write it for him actually takes longer than writing it yourself it was appropriate for him to receive a longer time to take the test. I don't think people question legitimate accommodations for test taking but some things that people require accommodations for are just ridiculous and unfair to the rest of the test takers whether it is a large number or not.
True. I have a feeling that kids in Europe where the schools are far ahead of ours, don't have as many kids doped up on drugs and diagnosed with the fad learning disabilities we have here.
You're mistaken. Europeans are far ahead of the United States because they take special education seriously.
For example, 1 out of ever 21 students in Germany attend a special education school. Even adults have accomodations in Europe.
It's funny people don't realize this. Afterall, Europe is very liberal minded compared to the United States.
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute
What happens to these kids someday when they want to be programmers but need extra time to finish their tasks and the programmers from India can get the job done in the expected time?
Any college student would be crazy to be a programmer anyway. Very talented programmers are losing jobs to India. It has nothing to do with Indians having more talent, but Indians working for less money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute
Poorly performing schools tend to get a lot more kids into special ed and labeled with learning disabilities.
That's only because the school isn't adequately teaching the general population of students. In other words, if the general population of students aren't learning effectively, more children qualify for special education because their performance is lower than their potential. Some of the state education systems in our country are downright pityful.
I live in a state with one of the best education systems in the country. States with terrible education systems have higher standards for qualifying for special education. In other words, a student's performance has to be significantly lower in a state with poor education system for the student to qualify for special education. States with strong education systems have less hurdles for admitting children into special education programs. There's a proven standard success in states with quality special education programs. That's one of the main reasons their school systems are better than others.
Some school system spend very little money on education and it shows. The illiteracy rate in Mississippi is proof of that. The illiteracy rate in Mississippi is due to a poor education system. The state doesn't have a higher percentage of idiots than the rest of the country. And it certainly has a conservative minded population too so you can't blame the high illiteracy rate on liberalism.
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