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Old 01-24-2011, 08:29 AM
 
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I have a friend who has a six year old who she claims has Aspergers. She claims he does not understand social cues and that is why he is rude, obnoxious and has melt-downs.

What I see is a kid who can manipulate his mother like nothing I've ever seen. He is used to being the center of her world, and can't stand it if her attention is on anything else but him.

So my question is how can there be an inability to learn "social cues" but clearly an ability to learn all about what buttons to push with mom.

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Old 01-24-2011, 08:56 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrainOfSalt View Post
I have a friend who has a six year old who she claims has Aspergers. She claims he does not understand social cues and that is why he is rude, obnoxious and has melt-downs.

What I see is a kid who can manipulate his mother like nothing I've ever seen. He is used to being the center of her world, and can't stand it if her attention is on anything else but him.

So my question is how can there be an inability to learn "social cues" but clearly an ability to learn all about what buttons to push with mom.

Your judgement means nothing since we have no actual incidents to go on.

Here are the criteria for dxing autism with much of the verbiage cut to make it understandable to a non medical person

CUTTING THROUGH* THE PSYCHOBABBLE

How long have you known this child? Have you ever observed him on the playground? Have you ever observed him playing at home? Does he make eye contact with you when you speak to him or does he turn away as if eye contact is painful or does he look at your mouth or eyebrows rather than really looking at your eyes?

What was he like at 18 months, at 2 years old, at 3 years old?

How does he do at school? Does he have an IEP? Does he do well academically, but not on the playground or at lunch?
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Old 01-24-2011, 11:06 AM
 
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Thanks for the link, it was very informative.

I've known the child his whole life. His mom is a good friend of mine from childhood. I don't recall a speech delay or trouble looking a person in the eye..... to be honest I don't think he has aspergers. I see him behave differently when his mom is around, and that tells me he is doing a lot of manipulating. When I babysit him he is much better behaved than when his mom is around.

When he is inappropriate she claims he doesn't understand social cues, but I don't see how a child can be perceptive enough to manipulate mom, but not have the ability to know how to act appropriately in other settings.

Wouldn't a disorder cause the same behavior across the board?
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Old 01-24-2011, 11:20 AM
 
16,078 posts, read 17,876,536 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrainOfSalt View Post
Thanks for the link, it was very informative.

I've known the child his whole life. His mom is a good friend of mine from childhood. I don't recall a speech delay or trouble looking a person in the eye..... to be honest I don't think he has aspergers. I see him behave differently when his mom is around, and that tells me he is doing a lot of manipulating. When I babysit him he is much better behaved than when his mom is around.

When he is inappropriate she claims he doesn't understand social cues, but I don't see how a child can be perceptive enough to manipulate mom, but not have the ability to know how to act appropriately in other settings.

Wouldn't a disorder cause the same behavior across the board?
Aspergers children often do not have a speech delay, but they do have problems with social cues.

You still have not defined *better behaved* or *manipulation.* Has he been diagnosed? Or is mom self-diagnosing. (Many children with asperger's are not diagnosed until they are older, btw, so he could still have it even if he has no dx at 6).

Lots of kids behave differently with mom than with others. This is because they know mom will love them unconditionally even if they act up. It does NOT necessarily mean he is manipulating her, although that is possible.

The fact that *you* don't think he has asperger's does not mean he doesn't have it unless you are a neurologist, a psychologist or psychiatrist or someone else who is qualified to dx him.

Give me a specific example of his *manipulation* of his mom. Give me a similar example of how he behaves with you in the same kind of situation.

He asks for a cookie, for example. Mom won't give him a cookie. You won't give him a cookie. What does he do? What does mom do in reaction? What do you do in reaction?
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Old 01-25-2011, 07:01 PM
 
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Children learn to mainpulate their surroundings to survive. As infants, they cry (wet hungry etc) in discomfort, they learn that crying gets a reaction (dry full etc). This is very human.

This is quite normal for children with ASD as it is for NT children.

Now, that being said, ASDers do not get social cues (a stern look to shush a child who just told the entire sunday school class that mommy has purple underwear) or tones of voice relaying annoyance or frustration.

ASDers can be taught to behave and how to use appropriate actions to get their wants/needs met. To cater to a child (ASD or NT) is not a good idea. To be understanding is one thing, to use ASD as an excuse another.

It has been my experience that if you (the parent/adult/teacher) are consistant and predictable, many of the negative behaviors lessen.
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Old 01-25-2011, 08:13 PM
 
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I agree that parents and teachers need to be consistent, but ASD children often need more one on one teaching to *get* it.

The OP may be right about the mother catering to her child, but we cannot really know that without seeing specific examples of what is happening.

A Functional Behavior Analysis can tell us exactly what the purpose of the child's behavior is. It *may* be attention, but it might also be avoiding sensory overload. There can be many reasons why a child melts down. Also, NT or ASD, kids often melt down when they feel *safe* rather than in situations where they are off balance. Thus, the child may feel they *can* melt down at home with mom because he knows mom will love him anyway.
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Old 01-26-2011, 04:35 PM
 
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I never said that 'one teaching' would be sufficient... be it an ASDer or NT child.

We only get one side to any story on here. What we have here is only the OP's observations. Even if we had detailed descriptions, we cannot say that it is manipulation or ASD that causes the action.
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Old 01-26-2011, 06:31 PM
 
Location: Middle America
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All kids, whether they have autism or are neurotypical, display attention-seeking behavior. It's part of being human. Until you gather enough info to succesfully analyze the behavior, you can't really start to hypothesize as to its function.
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Old 01-30-2011, 12:51 PM
 
Location: PA
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Well, I have a son with Asperger's syndrome. He is 11 years old and was just dx this past summer. He has always had behavior problems and was originally dx with ADHD in 4th grade. He tends to "hold it together" all day long in school, and totally unravels at home. This is where he feels safe and comfortable and is able to let it all out. OT has helped a lot with some self regulation skills. A lot of times our kids are mistakenly seen as attention seeking, or rude by others, and I have gotten a lot of well meaning but useless advice from other parents who think my son just needs more discipline. It is very difficult for anyone to understand if they do not also have a child on the spectrum. It was recently explained to me by a therapist that my son is in an 11 year old body, hanging around other 11 year old kids, and trying to navigate the social world of other 11 year olds, but has the coping and social skills of a 5 year old. The parent of that child needs help and support, not criticism by others who are not experts in this area.

Karen
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Old 02-26-2011, 10:25 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craftmasterk View Post
...I have gotten a lot of well meaning but useless advice from other parents who think my son just needs more discipline. It is very difficult for anyone to understand if they do not also have a child on the spectrum. It was recently explained to me by a therapist that my son is in an 11 year old body, hanging around other 11 year old kids, and trying to navigate the social world of other 11 year olds, but has the coping and social skills of a 5 year old. The parent of that child needs help and support, not criticism by others who are not experts in this area.

Karen
I agree. Up until about 4yrs old my son would behave better for other family in one on one situations. Also, knowing how to behave appropriately in social situations is different than knowing how to provoke your parents.

Also, a requirement for an Aspergers diagnosis is normal cognitive and language development (a child with a speech delay without a separate cause--like chronic fluid in the ears, impairing hearing) would not qualify for that diagnosis.
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