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Does he have an IEP or 504? That's the key question-- because unless he does, unless he qualifies for different treatment than any other kid, the school simply doesn't have to agree to frequent reports, updates, or meetings-- whether it would be in Junior's best interests or not. If he has a qualifying condition-- ADHD would do it for a 504, the criteria are a bit stricter for an IEP, and no, good grades do not negate his need if his education is being affected adversely (by things like suspensions, poor impulse control, etc). So that would be the first issue.
Now, that having been said, after a certain point a diagnosis is a reason, not an excuse. If Junior has issues, the school has an obligation to work with him, but Junior also has the obligation to simply work harder. Yes, it's a shame he's the youngest in his class and therefore less mature; yes, it's a shame if he has ADHD or whatever. But the bottom line is that, like deaf children trying to communicate or paraplegics trying to keep up physically, he simply has to make more effort. This is where a good behavioral system comes in handy. And it's where new challenges for you come in, because Behavioral Mod is a complete PIA-- but it can work. Simply put, the responsibility for his actions becomes his, and privileges/consequences are strictly tied in (that's the PIA part). You probably won't see results immediately, and you must be consistent, because intermittent reinforcement of good behavior has even worse results than letting him run amok. Eventually, though, it does help. And the last thing you'll need to consider is, if there's a biomedical reason for his problems, medication. If you've tried everything else, you might want to discuss it with a pedi psych (not a general pede) and decide from there. Research on the internet if you like, but consider the sources of the information you find on webistes. If it's sponsored by pharmaceutical companies or the Church of Scientology (and an appalling percentage of anti-med sites are, by the latter, though they use some fluffy name to disguise themselves) take it with the appropriate grains of salt.
Having said all that, the teacher probably knows what are reasonable accommodations for a kid with poor impulse control, but I like this oen because it's a bit better written than most of what's out there: http://www.ames.k12.ia.us/Academics/...comandMods.pdf
apparently I have to spread some love before I can rep you again
I find it interesting that people automatically assume that I do not discipline and also jump on the anti-medication bandwagon. Realize I cannot put every single detail on here. Putting him on medication was not just a quick and simple decision. We talked about his behavior for several years and held off, saw a counselor, tried different discipline methods, etc. The counselor is an ADHD specialist. It wasn't until his confidence was strongly affected last fall that I decided to try the medication. This was after much thinking and much research. If you guys only knew, I won't take a tylenol that easily much less medicate my son without careful thought and research. Fortunately my pediatrician also lives in the real world and works with me. We talked about a full evaluation with a specialist, but it is very expensive and my insurance sucks so yes we both decided to try medication. If there was some clear cut objective way to give a for sure diagnosis, it would be different. But since the testing they do for ADHD is pure behavior testing and subjective and since that is what we have been doing for four years now, we decided against it.
And regarding discipline, there is no doubt in my mind that his issues are not due to any sort of lack of discipline on my end. I do believe that his teach has not been consistant but I most certainly am. Now I will accept that I probably do let him get away with arguing with me at home more, but the other behaviors absolutely not.
You will find that most school counselors are ADD/ADHD specialists for good reason. For every student diagnosed the school receives money for that student. After what I went through with my son, I'm cautioning you to not jump too fast into the ADD/ADHD trap. A couple of people have suggested "giftedness". Third grade is a little early for that. If it were boredom from giftedness, your son would be able to differentiate between appropriate behavior and non-appropriate behavior.
As far as discipline, making him accountable for his actions along with consequences is the right thing to do. Quitting your job or changing hours is not always an option a single Mom has.
Communication between you and the teacher might be your best bet. Constant emails, phonecalls and visits to school are what works for us. There is some accountability on the teacher to have your sons best interests at heart. Schedule a meeting with the teacher, principal and yourself to discuss what would be the best route for you and the teacher to stay in contact on a daily basis. If your son knows that you will be talking with the teacher everyday his behavior might just improve.
Forgot to mention an assignment book. Have your son bring one home everyday. The teacher should note any negative behavior and assignments and sign it. He brings it home, does his homework and reading then has you sign the book. The key to this is making sure you and the teacher BOTH keep up on going over the daily entries and sign it.
I want to copy a few things out of order. I did not see this brought up by any of the replies.. I honestly know what you are going through; so please bear with me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DressageGirl
And for the record, I belive I am quite strict with him. He is not allowed to watch TV or play video games during the week at all. Only allowed on weekends to watch TV or play video games if he has earned the priviledge over the week. When he goes to friends hoiuse, he might watch them play video games or I often tell the parents to send him home if they want to play. He hardly gets any sugar or "junk" unless we are on vacation or the occasional treat out. Never gets caffeine, i think he has maybe had an occasional sprite/7up while out and has probably had a sip or so of coke a handful of times in his life. While I do believe I could do better about cutting out more preservatives, artificial stuff, etc. he does eat relatively better than most kids I know. So basically I am saying while I could always stand to get super strict with diet, I am pretty darn strict already.
edited since posted
I wonder if you're too strict? He may be getting teased over the video games. If he's at a friends; why can't he play video games? It could be a reason he's acting out; if the kids are teasing him over it. The teasing could also happen at school.. not allowing him some of the things that his friends have; he will be left out of conversations & being able to bond with other kids. I don't feel video games in moderation are bad. If he's able to do well in school from September until Christmas; what are the chances of him getting a video game as a reward? You could then use it as a reward & kids can come to your house to play; then you will be able to monitor what they are playing.
I know video games can be pricey; Game Stop has used systems fairly cheap.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DressageGirl
I am aat my wits end. My son has been having issues in school from day one and this year has really come to a head. He is in third grade, turns 9 in June. He was the easiest baby ever, I could have handled three of him but from about the age of 18 months-2 yrs old he turned into a handful. He was truly hard until he was about 6. Now he is a pleasure at home 85% of the time but we are still having issues at school. Preschool he got kicked out of his first one for aggressive behavior and I did get multiple calls from the following one.
Kindergarten was the same thing, he was at the principles office 4-5 times throughout the year and I received a retention letter. His grades were very good so he moved on to 1st. We talked to my pediatrician and none of us were ready to put him on medication because he was very borderline and one of the younger boys in school. We did see a counselor every two weeks during the school year in K and 1st but I stopped it in 2nd grade because he seemed to be doing very well. 1st and 2nd grade were much better but he did go to the principles office 3-4 times throughout the year, sometimes for aggressive behavior (he is impulsive and while a generally good natured child, would just react and push, hit) sometimes for disruptive behavior.
Of course once in 2nd grade he got sent to the principals office for flushing a pencil down the toilet, so I do firmly believe his school overreacts, but I'm not making excuses for him. So second year he tested very high, 97th percentile, for math and science, and so-so for the others 85th percentile, and the other test they use and he was placed in the gifted and talented program. 3rd grade comes along. He is doing quite well in math and science As-Bs but his homeroom classes language arts and social studies, he is having a hard time.
He went to the principals office for the 6th time today for "disruptive" behavior. Talked to my pediatrician multiple times over the course of the years and finally said I want to try meds. He was on a very low dose starting in Nov seemed to be doing better then had a major regression in December so we doubled his dose. So I get a call today from the asst principal, he is at office today for 6th time for disruptive behavior as a result is suspended tomorrow and cannot return to school until we all have a meeting. We have one scheduled for 7:15 monday morning (spring break is next week so following mon).
I talked to the guidance counselor for 45 minutes today.I have been very frustrated with the school. All I know is that he was disruptive, no notes from the teacher but when I talked to the guidance counselor she said she knew he had been to see the asst principal and didn't have many details other than he laughed out loud and was making faces at another child. Now I know my son has issues but I am having a difficult time getting communication from the school. Two weeks ago I had a meeting with his teacher and the guidance counselor because he apparently wasn't getting "any" of his work done. He was doing "nothing" but he still has As, Bs, and a C (brought his Language arts grade up from a C to a B but SS dropped from a B to a Cs). We were working out a plan for him to get his classwork done but since his behavior has been an issue in the past, I specifically asked them if I could be notified daily about his behavior as well. Teacher specifically said she wasn't concerned about his behavior, he just needed to do his classwork. So two weeks later I get a call from the principal asst. with a vm that says he is "continually" making bad choices and continually being disruptive.
As you can tell I am very frustrated with the school. My son has issues, I realize that and I have been trying to address them but the school is not being cooperative at all. I have repeatedly asked for daily reports but to no avail. I hear nothing for weeks, months even, assume everything is fine then all of a sudden I have a hellion that is "continually" disruptive and "never" does his work.
I am in SC in what is supposed to be a very good school district. I realize that SC is not known for good schools, but this truly is "supposed" to be one of the best in the country in regards to testing, etc. But my son is clearly not getting what he needs out of it. What are my rights? Are there options? Another friend said that he should be assigned an advocate but she came from a very good school district in PA. I imagine it varies from state to state but I know there are some federal requirements and as much as I have tried to research, I just don't know what to do.
I feel your pain with the school; my girl was the same way. By the end of 3rd grade I was at the school multiple times per week. Everyone is mentioning have the school test him- let me tell you; I doubt it because his grades are too good & with budget cuts; they are not going to want to spend the money.
Things really blew up between 4th & 5th grade & I finally was able to get the school to spend the money to test her. I'm pretty sure there had to be a certain amount of C's before they will even consider it.
Most teachers don't want to keep you informed; they can't be bothered. Best suggestion I can give you is to see if the school has a web site & get all of his teachers email addresses. Some classes have web sites where the teacher posts homework. I used to email the teachers; with CC to someone in the office. You can also go to the school board.
Have you noticed a pattern with his behavior? Different times of the year? Mine would start in November; then again late February. It seemed like breaks did not come soon enough. It would be helpful if you could speak to the teacher & ask if you can give her a calendar or journal- where she can jot down what's going on so that you can bring it to the doctor. Some teachers will do it; some won't. You can also ask his doctor to write the note to the teacher to track it.
It's frustrating. Been there & done that.
I've been seeing commercials for a medication patch. It may be worth asking the doctor about it. Do you mind sharing what meds he's on?
I forgot to mention that I think I have a copy of the original letter I wrote to get my daughter tested. I was friends with someone that was an advocate who gave me a form letter. They said that the school pretty much won't do anything until you put stuff in writing. There is also a site called Wrightslaw where you can get information about advocates
Also; I mentioned keeping a journal for teachers. You might want to keep one for home too because at some point; he will start melting down at home if he's like my girl. After 10+ years; it's possible mine may be high functioning aspergers. She had a few quirks- like hair hurting when combing; walked / talked early; socks & shoes had to be loose; then clothes too.
Thank you for all your responses. Things just aren't getting better and I think I need to formally request an IEP or 504.
I did a ton of research and met with the teacher and counselor about three weeks ago. I brought templates and ideas for a daily report card. I've asked repeatedly for a daily note or email but just wasn't getting what we needed so we developed a daily report card with the three items we all thought he needed to work on the most. We started using it Monday of last week. Problem is in the last two weeks it has been completed all of twice. They are wanting him to take the initiative to bring it to the teachers and either just isn't or is forgetting. Then Wednesday I get smiley faces for the whole day, I was so happy made a big deal. Same thing yesterday, fantastic! Then I get an email at work from his math/science teacher (which is the teacher he typically has less issues with) saying that he simply didn't get anything done during the whole period (1.5 hours), and that he was wandering the classroom talking to other kids (it was kind of a project thing, they had a guest from the high school although I am still wondering why he was wandering and wasn't stopped). Anyway, I got this email and I come home and in his daily report card he has smileys for the whole day again. And then it hits me, the teachers didn't do the smileys he did. He has completely lied about the last few days. So of course I am beside myself. My dad had taken him to soccer practice so I called my dad and said bring him home immediately even though they it wasn't over, I thought I needed to make a point. When he got home I asked him who wrote the smiley faces and he kept saying the teacher. Then I told him he had one more chance to tell the truth, that while if he told me the truth now he would be in trouble, he would be in way worse trouble if when I talked to the teacher I then found out. So then he told me, yes all the smiley faces from the last three days were him.
I just don't know what to do. I have already contacted some clinics to do the full evaluation. I am ready to formally ask for an IEP or 504 but I don't understand why a medical doctor's diagnosis isn't enough (that is what I am gathering from what I have read). I am emotionally and mentally drained that I am having difficulty wrapping my brain around all of the information on IEPs and 504s. And I consider myself a fairly smart and educated individual, I think I am just too emotionally involved.
I need to get him into counseling and/or some sort of programs but still having trouble finding some good recommendations. It would be great if there was some sort of summer school programs that would help with social, learning and behavioral skills but I have never seen anything like that. I have even started exploring private schools but there is no way I could afford that. I am not just a single parent, I am an only parent. My husband died when my son was a baby. Anyway, that is beside the point just wanted to point that out because it is just me, no father to help get him to drs appointments, child support, etc.
Thanks again, some of you have made some really good posts. I also wanted to respond to some other posts. He is playing soccer and has been sicne he was four and has actually been doing better than he ever has this year, although he is not close to being a talented or the best play, he has just really focused more and made some great improvement and really seems to enjoy it. I am strict but I have tried various amounts of stritness with him over the years. He doesn't watch TV or video games during the week but if he has had a good week, he does on the weekends. Tonight we were supposed to go to a culdesac party but because of the lying, he is here with me. He also has a friend spending the night but he isn't playing with him and the friend got to go down to the culdesac with another neighbor. That I think is really hitting home with him because he can hear the kids.
Edited to add: Now my big dilemma is how much punishment over this? I am having several friends over tomorrow with kids. Do I make him go to his room or is tonights punishment enough? Or give him extra chores or schoolwork tomorrow and if he gets that done then he can play tomorrow night? I am pretty upset over the lying but I know it can be easy to overdo the punishment too.
But what do I do? He can't continue like this? It was his sixth referral to the office and while the offences haven't gotten worse, because it was his sixth offence he was automatically suspended again. He apparently has been arguing with the teacher about why his work isn't getting done, trying to tell other kids what to do, and interrupting the teacher.
I need some concrete, realistic things that the teacher can do to nip this in the bud. because apparently she keeps just telling him then just has enough and sends him to the office.
Haven't read the rest of the thread yet. In your first post, you say that he can't watch TV or play video games during the week. And that's fine, but you didn't mention what he -can- do.
EDITED because I read the most recent post: Is he getting DAILY physical exercise for at least an hour, outside of school? I know soccer isn't 7 days a week, and I also know that the coaches usually rotate kids so there's plenty of time they're not being active.
Does he get to run around the yard after school or after supper for an hour? You also say his grandfathers don't engage him in physical activity; is he getting any, outside the school environment? If he isn't, he should. Kids have TONS of energy and need to use some of it up every day or they'll explode at inappropriate times.
That sounds more like what's going on with your son, than anything else.
Do you have a doctor's dx of ADHD for your son? When you request your school evaluation in writing, supply them with his test results. Also, if you are having additional outside testing, include that as well. We got nowhere with our son until we did exactly that, then the school was much more willing to do an IEP. Also, getting an advocate was huge!
My son was also dx with AS a year after his ADHD dx, but the school did not want to add that dx to his IEP. They stated repeatedly throughout their eval that he had social skills issues, and were so worried about so many other things that were directly related to his AS dx, but when it came time for the teachers to do their AS rating test, they saw no problems at all. I fought and got a letter from his psychologist who admittedly did not have any expertise with AS, and they added his AS dx based solely on that!
I would wait on punishing him until you get that eval and see exactly what it is you are dealing with. I am certainly not an expert, but I know with AS, punishment is not the answer and it does not help them to learn a lesson. Each inappropriate behavior should be used as a teaching moment, not a punishment. It sounds like he is trying so hard to please you, that is why he put those stickers on his chart, he saw how happy that made you and he did not want to let you down. Every child has the desire to please, especially when it comes to their parents. Maybe let him earn "points" for good behavior, and praise him often for the good things that he does.
We also have problems finding good services in our area, but I refuse to settle for just OK, I want the best for my son so I travel to get him what he needs, outside of school. I wish you and your son the very best!
Director of Child Study
Address of the building in the school district
RE: Referral for comprehensive evaluation for special education
Dear ,
The purpose of this letter is to refer my child, (name), to the child study team for comprehensive, multidisciplinary assessment in order to determine eligibility for special education. I am aware that this referral does not require any prereferral interventions prior to the testing requested. Child Find (300.125) requires that you identify, locate and evaluate any child in the district with a suspected disability without cost to myself.
The areas of concern to me that prompts this request are… (List or discuss) behavior, add, odd, diagnoses, incidents, homework problems,
I will make certain that my child is available for these evaluations. Please be advised that I will call you one week from today in order to schedule the required meetings and testing. Thank you for your cooperation and assistance.
(insert name), Director of Special Services
(insert name), School District
(insert address)
RE: Referral for comprehensive evaluation for special education
Re: (insert name)
Dear (insert name),
The purpose of this letter is to refer my child, (insert name), to the child study team for a comprehensive, multidisciplinary assessment in order to determine eligibility for special education. (insert name) is a th grade student at (insert name) School. Child Find (300.125) requires that you identify, locate and evaluate any child in the district with a suspected disability without cost to myself.
(insert name) was previously referred to the Child Study Team in (insert date), by me, for academic and behavioral issues. Since the summertime was upon us, and no school personnel were available for meetings during the summer, we were not able to meet within the 90 day time period. When we finally did meet on date, she was found not eligible for services. I understand by law that both a vision and hearing screening must be completed, but I cannot find any record of that. Also the only testing performed at the time was a psychological screening and a social history. No medical or educational testing was performed at the time.
Unfortunately, (insert name) still is experiencing problems at home and school. Her grades have dropped to new low levels. Doing a comparison of her report cards from 2003 (when she was referred), and now, it is as follows:
The report card table will not paste in- email me if you want the files in a word document
You will see her grades are clearly declining, which is of a major concern to me. A review of her report cards consistently shows comments that her behavior interrupts her ability to learn. A comment on this year’s First Marking Period Interim Report (as reported by her teacher(insert name)) says, “(insert name) is disruptive to herself and the class.” In looking back at her old report cards, I saw lots of remarks that reflect her behavior is inconsistent and usually disruptive. She has also received detention at least 2 times this years for behavior issues. She rides the bus to and from school, and due to problems at the beginning of the school year; she must sit up front next to the bus driver.
I understand that a meeting to discuss my request must be scheduled within 20 calendar days of your receipt of this letter. Please be advised that I will call you one week from today in order to schedule the required meetings and testing. Thank you for your cooperation and assistance.
(insert name), Director of Special Services
(insert name) School District
(Insert Address)
RE: Request for more information –(insert name) Report (insert date)
(insert name)
Dear (insert name),
I am sending you this letter to request more information about some tests that were performed on my daughter, (insert name).
In 2003, Mr. (insert name) performed a psychological assessment, as part of a child study team referral. Recently, while reviewing this report, I noticed that information regarding the WISC III and some other tests were not fully disclosed in the report.
On the WISC III, scores for only a few subtests were documented in the report. I would like to know each of the subtests performed and their respective scores.
On the Koppitz Human Figure Drawing, the report only mentions minimal information. I would like more information about this test, any subtest and respective scores, and any other information that may be pertinent to me understanding this test.
Three other tests (Sentence Completion Test, Reynolds Child Depression Scale, Thematic Apperception Test – Card #1) were documented as being performed, but the report does not include any information about them. I would like more information about these other tests, any subtests and respective scores, and any other information that may be pertinent to me understanding these tests.
As (insert name) is being referred to the Child Study Team again, this information is important to me as I need to be able to compare her performance on these tests to any new testing that may be performed.
I hope this request can be met without delay. I respectfully request this information to be given to me in the written form. I will call you one week from today to find out the status of this request. Thank you for your cooperation and assistance.
Best Regards,
(insert name)
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apparently I have to spread some love before I can rep you again
