Can a public school MAKE a parent accept placement in "Special Ed" class for an Asperger child? (kids, boy)

[Zimbochick]

Syracusa - why did you have your son assessed?

[h886]

No, they cannot "do anything to you" but you would have to understand that your son would be held 100% accountable for his actions, as if no disability existed. So, for example, if he lost his temper because of a change in routine or a decision he didn't like and hit another child? He would be held fully accountable as if he didn't have AS. You could not then say, "No wait, this behavior/reaction to stress is a known pattern in kids with AS." In the eyes of the school, he would not have a disability. Same thing if he's getting off task in class. Then he's just a disobedient student, not a young man with brain chemistry such that this task is harder for him than all the others, or where he needs the task structured in a different way. See where this is going?

I wouldn't think of it like the school "lowering standards" for him, but rather that the school can teach him a different way, perhaps better suited for him because of his different way of thinking. His brain is wired differently. Maybe he's better than average at some things, and worse at others. The same skills that another child might pick up naturally (empathy, reading social cues, responding appropriately in social situations), your child could be systematically taught. Usually the earlier you start, the better the results.

I worry that what you want is to ignore the problem and hope it goes away. That's so tempting, because no one ever wants to be in this position. At the same time, I worry that will do your son a disservice. He already has problems fitting in. How much harder will that be for him when he's in middle school? High school? Beyond that? Grandpa won't be there to intimidate him forever.

With the homeschooling argument, let me flip it around and ask you this: If it turned out that you did feel he was so "labeled" that it was to his detriment, couldn't you just start homeschooling him then? And are you certain you could do a better job than someone who has years of training and experience working with AS kids? Teaching and parenting are two entirely different things, but they have in common that onlookers tend to think they're no big deal, that they're so easy anyone could just jump right in and do them. And yes, anyone can, but it is an entirely different thing to do them well. If you want to go this route, I would see if the local university offers any classes you could take in working with kids with differences. It's a whole different animal.

As a final (off topic) note, if you choose to teach him "hit back" then it's your choice, but understand that in the eyes of the school any child who participates in physical fighting will be punished and have it put on their record. Who started it and who finished it is usually irrelevant. I worry this is an especially risky idea for a young man who may have trouble understanding social cues.

[syracusa]

Originally Posted by Zimbochick

Syracusa - why did you have your son assessed?

I had a whole different thread a few months ago about how we got to the psychologist's office. It is below - but it ended up long.
In a nut shell, the teacher at preschool thought he was too self-driven, was sometimes not "falling in line" and too much interested in dinosaurs to the detriment of other things. One time, when prompted to do something he didn't want to do, he just crossed his arms and turned with his back to the teacher; so the teacher got frustrated.

I asked her what she thought I should do about it; she suggested I talk to the ped; and the ped said "he's such a delightful and bright child in so may ways (blah, blah blah), why don't we evaluate him before he starts K just to exclude any problems". So she gave us a referral to a specialist (apparently a friend of hers whom she said she trusted) - and this is how we ended up in a psychologist's office.

When we got there, we were convinced she was going to say "he's fine, he's just a kid, he has nothing" at best, or ADHD at worst.

She ended up giving him an AS dx - and we were quite shocked.
That's the story. More details in this older thread (I was quite mad at first).

Is this really Aspergers? Baffled, worried, questioning the psych's suggestion.

[syracusa]

Originally Posted by h886

With the homeschooling argument, let me flip it around and ask you this: If it turned out that you did feel he was so "labeled" that it was to his detriment, couldn't you just start homeschooling him then?

Of course! Homeschooling would be an absolutely last resort for us. It would only happen if we were pushed to accept a SPED placement. That is, if he was forced in a class with kids with disabilities only.
Like I said, this kind of segregation would simply be unacceptable for us.
I would have to learn how to home-school him the right way - but having him surrounded by kids with weaknesses that would only encourage his own weaknesses to flourish, that is simply not an option for us, regardless of how horrifically difficult home-school would be.

Speaking of which, this would beg the question: do regular private schools (NOT those especially made for kids with disabilities) accept AS children if they pass whatever standards they have for admission?

Originally Posted by h886

And are you certain you could do a better job than someone who has years of training and experience working with AS kids?

No, I am not not; but I am certain he would be better served by my homeschooling than by the specialized teaching of a great SPED teacher who would teach HIM ALONG WITH OTHER SPED STUDENTS in one segregated SPED class. The environment matters a tremendous lot to me.
I myself am an educator, after all, and I am pretty confident I could home-school him if I had to. I am just praying I won't have to.

[nana053]

Originally Posted by syracusa

Speaking of which, this would beg the question: do regular private schools (NOT those especially made for kids with disabilities) accept AS children if they pass whatever standards they have for admission?

MOST private schools don't like to have any special education students, but the best private schools do accept children with AS if they are academically advanced and pass the tests



No, I am not not; but I am certain he would be better served by my homeschooling than by the specialized teaching of a great SPED teacher who would teach HIM ALONG WITH OTHER SPED STUDENTS in one segregated SPED class. The environment matters a tremendous lot to me.
I myself am an educator, after all, and I am pretty confident I could home-school him if I had to. I am just praying I won't have to.

IT IS UNLIKELY that your son will be segregated into that kind of special education class, but I have to ask are you not willing to have your son educated with a young Stephen Hawkings? Or with a brilliant child who happens to be blind? or deaf? or in a wheel chair? Many special needs students do have academic or behavioral problems, but have physical problems.

I would suggest that you visit the school where your son will be enrolled and ask them about what classes they offer.

[AnonChick]

I must be missing something - but that video of the 5 year old chatting with his mom, looks like a normal 5 year old boy, with a facial twitch (that one-sided smirk he does a few times during the video).

Even the be-bopping physical stuff he does isn't far removed from what normal 5 year old boys do. Plus he looks directly at his mom (rather than the camera lens), so even -that- is a normal behavior for a 5 year old boy. I'm not seeing anything "aspergers" about him. If you've seen a normal 5 year old in an "active, chatty, typical" mood, being asked to stay in one place while he chats instead of being allowed to run around the yard while he chats, it'd look like him.

[h886]

Originally Posted by syracusa

Of course! Homeschooling would be an absolutely last resort for us. It would only happen if we were pushed to accept a SPED placement. That is, if he was forced in a class with kids with disabilities only. Like I said, this kind of segregation would simply be unacceptable for us. I would have to learn how to home-school him the right way - but having him surrounded by kids with weaknesses that would only encourage his own weaknesses to flourish, that is simply not an option for us, regardless of how horrifically difficult home-school would be.

Speaking of which, this would beg the question: do regular private schools (NOT those especially made for kids with disabilities) accept AS children if they pass whatever standards they have for admission?

No, I am not not; but I am certain he would be better served by my homeschooling than by the specialized teaching of a great SPED teacher who would teach HIM ALONG WITH OTHER SPED STUDENTS in one segregated SPED class. The environment matters a tremendous lot to me.
I myself am an educator, after all, and I am pretty confident I could home-school him if I had to. I am just praying I won't have to.

You're an educator? I'm a little surprised to hear that. Have you never had a child with AS in your class? Surely you're used to following sp ed accommodations, then, for the other kids in your class? Surely you don't treat those children as any less worthy than the others?

I'm not in your area. Some of the private schools in my area are designed specifically for students with learning differences and that's the population they serve. Of the others, all that I know of have some sort of disclaimer about how because of size and budget constraints they aren't able to accommodate (insert some PC statement to include anyone who needs anything other than large group instruction.)

It seems like the true thing you fear is that your son will be placed into a separate room. Without getting into the argument of how that's best for some kids (which it is), and the way you talk about those kids is disappointing (which it is), let me state again that it doesn't sound like that would be necessary in your son's case at all. By law (LRE), they do not put kids into a separate room unless they are unable to function in the classroom environment.

So basically, the point you're worrying over is moot. The only way he would be put into a separate room is if he was absolutely unable to function in the regular classroom. And frankly, whether you tell them about the diagnosis or not, that level of need would probably be apparent within the first week of school. So you gain nothing by withholding this information. What you lose is all the services (free--your taxes pay for them!) that your son would be eligible for through the school and the protection that any issues that are a manifestation of his disability will be dealt with as such, rather than just viewed as plain old misbehavior.

This is not to say that any kid with a disability is allowed to run naked and screaming through the school. This is not to say misbehavior is ignored. That's not the case at all. However, your son may benefit from behavioral therapy. He may benefit from a specific behavior improvement plan targeted towards problem behaviors. He may benefit from his teacher allowing him a time-out when he's about to have a meltdown. He may benefit from a positive reward system designed to "teach" the skills other kids may pick up naturally. It's not that the expectation is any less, it's that through recognizing a need that the other kids may not have, the plan for how to get there may change and more interventions can be put into place.

[syracusa]

Originally Posted by h886

You're an educator? I'm a little surprised to hear that. Have you never had a child with AS in your class? Surely you're used to following sp ed accommodations, then, for the other kids in your class? Surely you don't treat those children as any less worthy than the others?

I teach university - and so I deal with grown-ups.
I may have had Asperger students in class but I wouldn't know. I was never required to make any accommodation for an AS student. I had a few cases with other types of disability who required longer for completing a timed assessment. That's all.

Originally Posted by h886

However, your son may benefit from behavioral therapy. He may benefit from a specific behavior improvement plan targeted towards problem behaviors. He may benefit from his teacher allowing him a time-out when he's about to have a meltdown. He may benefit from a positive reward system designed to "teach" the skills other kids may pick up naturally. It's not that the expectation is any less, it's that through recognizing a need that the other kids may not have, the plan for how to get there may change and more interventions can be put into place.

I understand. We are thinking that the best route might be to get a second opinion and then disclose it to the school, if one other expert sees things the same way.

[GPC]

Originally Posted by h886

It seems like the true thing you fear is that your son will be placed into a separate room. Without getting into the argument of how that's best for some kids (which it is), and the way you talk about those kids is disappointing (which it is)

To the OP - This aspect of your posts sadden me the most. What would happen if your son was ever in an accident that injured his brain? Would you love him any less? I follow the blog of a beautiful 7 year old girl with brain cancer and the treatment she's undergoing will probably affect her cognitive abilities. Of course, her mother doesn't want that to happen but she's just grateful her daughter is still alive and is willing to run that risk to keep her on this planet. Acceptance and tolerance are wonderful things. I'm not saying your son belongs in a class with severely-disabled kids but it would be nice if you didn't look down on those children that do. Just remember: those 'severely-disabled' kids have parents who love them just as much as you love your son. Having a severely-disabled child is hard enough without the judgment from those who feel superior.

[syracusa]

Originally Posted by GPC

To the OP - This aspect of your posts sadden me the most. What would happen if your son was ever in an accident that injured his brain? Would you love him any less? I follow the blog of a beautiful 7 year old girl with brain cancer and the treatment she's undergoing will probably affect her cognitive abilities. Of course, her mother doesn't want that to happen but she's just grateful her daughter is still alive and is willing to run that risk to keep her on this planet. Acceptance and tolerance are wonderful things. I'm not saying your son belongs in a class with severely-disabled kids but it would be nice if you didn't look down on those children that do. Just remember: those 'severely-disabled' kids have parents who love them just as much as you love your son. Having a severely-disabled child is hard enough without the judgment from those who feel superior.

I am sorry you concluded that I would be un-accepting or intolerant of people with disabilities, weaknesses or you name it. What I am not tolerant of is the idea of lowering expectations where expectations do not need to be lowered. I really do believe that such approaches do not serve those with a variety of weaknesses but further incapacitate them and paint them into a corner - and THIS is unfair to them!
For example, I would never understand why a child with typical Asperger-related weaknesses would be served by being allowed or even encouraged to indulge in extreme silliness. Wouldn't he be better served by being taught how to act and expected to act the right way?

I would never question that those who have severely disabled kids love them as much as any parent loves their normal child. In fact, I would go so far to argue that those who have such children love them perhaps even more than parents love a normal child - maybe because such love is raw, and sensitive, and vulnerable, deep, over-protective and even heart-breaking.
You are mistaken in drawing the conclusion that I am insensitive to such aspects of life.

I already feel a difference in the way I love my daughter (an incredibly normal, charming, adorable little girl who draws oooh-s and aahh-s wherever she goes just because she exists!) and the way I love my son - who, despite being an equally good looking and appealing-at-first-sight child - is much more sensitive, difficult and at risk for having a less-than smooth social life. I involuntarily feel more protective of him and always end up spending more time with him than with her - although I hate myself for doing this.

My love for my son just feels more...raw - exactly because I feel he is more vulnerable; and he really is not all that vulnerable compared to those children you were talking about who are severely disabled.

How could I conclude that their parents do not love them?!!!!

I love my son IMMENSELY and I understand how the parent of a severely disabled child would maybe love their child 10 times more than I love my "pretty much OK" son!

But do I like and accept all of his Asperger-like traits/acts? Heck no!! Will I cultivate them, tolerate them, allow them to continue to exist without trying to modify them? No.

Something along the lines of "I love you, but I don't like some of the things you do". Maybe some people cannot separate the two and believe that love means acceptance and tolerance of EVERYTHING, including the negative traits the loved one exhibits.

I don't believe that. I believe in helping the loved one get rid of the negative traits where he can help it. And HE CAN!

PS: Regarding the case you mentioned, about the 7 yo little girl with brain cancer - it does break my heart to hear about such things and yes, you are right - it DOES put things in perspective.