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Old 12-04-2017, 03:32 PM
 
1,441 posts, read 1,121,198 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PriscillaVanilla View Post
There is no medical procedure that is 100% risk free. I still think the benefits of vaccines far outweighs any possible risks or rare side effects.
I agree totally!!
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Old 12-04-2017, 03:33 PM
 
9,595 posts, read 5,804,602 times
Reputation: 9693
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zimbochick View Post
And yet you never, ever provide any scientific data to support your opinions. Why is that?
That's not true at all. Do you have any comment on the actual topic, or are just here to make up things about posters and stir the pot?

Last edited by MissTerri; 12-04-2017 at 04:20 PM..
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Old 12-04-2017, 03:49 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
23,423 posts, read 28,272,492 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
That's not true at all. Do you have any comment on the actual topic, or are just here to make up things about posters?
If you have any scientific evidence against vaccinating special needs children for flu, please provide it. We would all be very interested in reading it. All you have said in this thread is that flu vaccine is unnecessary. That is just your opinion.
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Old 12-04-2017, 04:12 PM
 
9,595 posts, read 5,804,602 times
Reputation: 9693
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
If you have any scientific evidence against vaccinating special needs children for flu, please provide it. We would all be very interested in reading it. All you have said in this thread is that flu vaccine is unnecessary. That is just your opinion.
This is what I said, Suzy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
I'm not afraid. I don't see the flu vaccine as necessary nor do I see it compatible with overall health, which is the long term goal. And to try to argue that it's so important in a year where it is expected to be 10% effective is over the top. No one is trying to convince you not to take it. Yet if someone decides it's not for them, you have to argue with them about it. Why?
This is my opinion and in line with my views on health. I am not trying to convince others not to get the flu vaccine for themselves and/or for their children as you can clearly see. I fully respect people's right to choose and would support any parent in getting the vaccine for their child if it is what they think is best. If a friend asked me for a ride to the pharmacy to get a flu shot for their kid I would say, "hop in".

I truly don't want to spend the next month arguing with you on this topic. I've learned from past experience that it doesn't matter what scientific evidence I or anyone else takes the time to post in regards to vaccines, it will never be good enough for you. It's pointless and a huge waste of time. I also don't think that a vaccine debate was ever intended to be the topic of this thread. It's already gone too far, in my opinion. I'm 100% for people making informed choices. I fully support a parent's decision to get the flu vaccine or not get it for their child. I stated my opinion because that is what the op asked for. The end.
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Old 12-04-2017, 04:17 PM
 
6,376 posts, read 3,582,535 times
Reputation: 7311
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
If you have any scientific evidence against vaccinating special needs children for flu, please provide it. We would all be very interested in reading it. All you have said in this thread is that flu vaccine is unnecessary. That is just your opinion.
YOU define special needs children. Those of us who have worked in the field, or have/had these children, would just love to hear your "medical definition" of a special needs child. They are all the SAME, right? You lose all credibility with that blanket statement, and show your bias for universal vaccination for all.

Please remember that you are talking to at least two people here who are in your vulnerable, at risk of dying from the flu group without their special,immune compromised, elderly, high dose flu shots, AND without those younger people around us getting theirs.
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Old 12-04-2017, 05:15 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
23,423 posts, read 28,272,492 times
Reputation: 29007
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
This is what I said, Suzy.
You said, "I don't see the flu vaccine as necessary nor do I see it compatible with overall health ... "

Now you refuse to explain why you do not see "flu vaccine as necessary" or "compatible with overall health". I am not the only one who has asked you to do so.

If you will not explain in a few sentences why you think the flu vaccine is more dangerous than the flu we can only surmise that you have no valid reason to believe that it is. Even if we do have a mismatched vaccine this year that does not mean we should not take advantage of whatever protection we can get from it.

Quote:
This is my opinion and in line with my views on health. I am not trying to convince others not to get the flu vaccine for themselves and/or for their children as you can clearly see. I fully respect people's right to choose and would support any parent in getting the vaccine for their child if it is what they think is best. If a friend asked me for a ride to the pharmacy to get a flu shot for their kid I would say, "hop in".

I truly don't want to spend the next month arguing with you on this topic. I've learned from past experience that it doesn't matter what scientific evidence I or anyone else takes the time to post in regards to vaccines, it will never be good enough for you. It's pointless and a huge waste of time. I also don't think that a vaccine debate was ever intended to be the topic of this thread. It's already gone too far, in my opinion. I'm 100% for people making informed choices. I fully support a parent's decision to get the flu vaccine or not get it for their child. I stated my opinion because that is what the op asked for. The end.
Why express your opinion at all if you are not hoping that others will follow your lead? I give my opinion and then show the scientific evidence that supports it.

In the past when you have tried to post scientific evidence against vaccines it has been easy to show that the articles you cited did not say what you thought they did or to provide a consensus of evidence that the articles you chose to use did not prove that vaccines were more dangerous than not vaccinating.

Of course a "vaccine debate" was the intended topic of the thread. If you are trying to help people make "informed choices" about vaccines, tell them the reasoning that supports the choice you make. Not vaccinating against flu because the vaccine is not perfect is not a good reason.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
YOU define special needs children. Those of us who have worked in the field, or have/had these children, would just love to hear your "medical definition" of a special needs child. They are all the SAME, right? You lose all credibility with that blanket statement, and show your bias for universal vaccination for all.

Please remember that you are talking to at least two people here who are in your vulnerable, at risk of dying from the flu group without their special,immune compromised, elderly, high dose flu shots, AND without those younger people around us getting theirs.
This thread is in the "Special Needs Children" subforum. I suspect that OP has a child that by some definition is considered special needs. In connection with a question about vaccines it is probable that the special needs child has autism, but you would need to ask the OP about that. Where have I said special needs children are "all the SAME"? Please link to the post.

Sure I have a bias towards vaccinating everyone, child and adult, who has no medical contraindications to doing so. If you are in a high risk group and choose not to take the vaccine I do not consider that a very smart decision.
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Old 12-05-2017, 06:01 AM
 
6,376 posts, read 3,582,535 times
Reputation: 7311
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
You said, "I don't see the flu vaccine as necessary nor do I see it compatible with overall health ... "

Now you refuse to explain why you do not see "flu vaccine as necessary" or "compatible with overall health". I am not the only one who has asked you to do so.

If you will not explain in a few sentences why you think the flu vaccine is more dangerous than the flu we can only surmise that you have no valid reason to believe that it is. Even if we do have a mismatched vaccine this year that does not mean we should not take advantage of whatever protection we can get from it.



Why express your opinion at all if you are not hoping that others will follow your lead? I give my opinion and then show the scientific evidence that supports it.

In the past when you have tried to post scientific evidence against vaccines it has been easy to show that the articles you cited did not say what you thought they did or to provide a consensus of evidence that the articles you chose to use did not prove that vaccines were more dangerous than not vaccinating.

Of course a "vaccine debate" was the intended topic of the thread. If you are trying to help people make "informed choices" about vaccines, tell them the reasoning that supports the choice you make. Not vaccinating against flu because the vaccine is not perfect is not a good reason.



This thread is in the "Special Needs Children" subforum. I suspect that OP has a child that by some definition is considered special needs. In connection with a question about vaccines it is probable that the special needs child has autism, but you would need to ask the OP about that. Where have I said special needs children are "all the SAME"? Please link to the post.

Sure I have a bias towards vaccinating everyone, child and adult, who has no medical contraindications to doing so. If you are in a high risk group and choose not to take the vaccine I do not consider that a very smart decision.
https://www.medpagetoday.com/blogs/themethodsman/69649

You might be interested in this recent study on what they call vaccine hesitancy. Why pushing all the science isn't working. The study was done using parents of young children, but applies to adults themselves as well.

I think you can surmise which group two of posting here are in: Purity, and Liberty/Authority. Quoting all the science in the world is moot for the Liberty/Authority group. Quote Jacobson and that will only cause an even greater opposition.
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Old 12-05-2017, 06:50 AM
 
9,595 posts, read 5,804,602 times
Reputation: 9693
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
https://www.medpagetoday.com/blogs/themethodsman/69649

You might be interested in this recent study on what they call vaccine hesitancy. Why pushing all the science isn't working. The study was done using parents of young children, but applies to adults themselves as well.

I think you can surmise which group two of posting here are in: Purity, and Liberty/Authority. Quoting all the science in the world is moot for the Liberty/Authority group. Quote Jacobson and that will only cause an even greater opposition.
I can see how this "study" could be used to explain in general why people are in favor of choice. Body autonomy, liberty, etc. but I don't see it as a reason why people as a whole would decline or accept a form of medical intervention such as vaccines. It's far too simplistic and implies that people who choose not to vaccinate for say, the flu, are doing it out of ignorance. As a parent, I make health decisions based on available information which includes scientific research and weighing risk vs reward. It's not a decision taken lightly and there is a lot to consider. Research the issue in depth and decide for yourself. No matter what I share, no matter how reputable the source, it will just lead to more arguing and more demands and won't end until the mods shut the thread down. Been there, done that and it's a huge waste of time and energy. Good luck, whatever one chooses.

Last edited by MissTerri; 12-05-2017 at 07:10 AM..
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Old 12-05-2017, 07:41 AM
 
Location: So Ca
15,790 posts, read 15,016,978 times
Reputation: 13707
Quote:
Originally Posted by PriscillaVanilla View Post
There is no medical procedure that is 100% risk free. I still think the benefits of vaccines far outweighs any possible risks or rare side effects.
Yes, which is the point. Last year was a particularly bad year for the flu in southern California. This article is from earlier this year.

"Not everyone is lucky enough to survive the flu. Some people develop and die from severe complications like pneumonia.

Dr. Benjamin Schwartz, acting director of the acute communicable disease program at Los Angeles County's Department of Public Health, said eight people in L.A. County alone have died of the flu this season — “an extreme underestimate” because the flu often doesn’t get listed as the official cause of death."


First child death from flu reported this season in California as cases rise sharply - LA Times
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Old 12-05-2017, 07:53 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
23,423 posts, read 28,272,492 times
Reputation: 29007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48 View Post
https://www.medpagetoday.com/blogs/themethodsman/69649

You might be interested in this recent study on what they call vaccine hesitancy. Why pushing all the science isn't working. The study was done using parents of young children, but applies to adults themselves as well.

I think you can surmise which group two of posting here are in: Purity, and Liberty/Authority. Quoting all the science in the world is moot for the Liberty/Authority group. Quote Jacobson and that will only cause an even greater opposition.
Rejecting the science in favor of feelings about "Purity" and "Liberty/Authority" is unwise. If you would rather not reduce the chance that your child or yourself will get sick, go for it. Just do not try to pretend that you are doing it for any reason except an inability to understand how vaccines work and being snookered by anti-vax cranks and quacks.
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