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Old 12-09-2017, 06:00 AM
 
7,581 posts, read 2,231,969 times
Reputation: 9138

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Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
People would only be protected by herd immunity if the area they are traveling to has a high enough vaccination rate to establish it. That is how Americans who are unvaccinated for measles travel overseas, get infected, come home, and start outbreaks. Vaccination rates in some countries have dropped too low. If you do not vaccinate you should be very happy that herd immunity exists. It is what is keeping your unvaccinated family from catching vaccine preventable diseases.

The schedule for mandates varies because it is established by nonmedical people with input from medical experts. In some countries, certain vaccines are not recommended because of expense. In others, vaccines are recommended that are not on the US schedule at all, such as the viral encephalitis vaccine in Japan.

Not all vaccines need boosters. If they do, it just means protection wanes, it does not mean the protection was never there at all.

"Diagnostic criteria" for polio were never changed. These days anyone anywhere in the world presenting with symptoms suggestive of polio will have specific testing done for the virus. Polio has almost been eradicated. Perhaps you are referring to the diagnosis of "non-polio acute flaccid paralysis", which by definition is not caused by polio. Other viruses can cause the exact same symptoms as polio. That does not mean polio has been renamed in order to artificially decrease the number of polio cases. Non-polio acute flaccid paralysis is not polio.

I have addressed everything you said, none of which was factual.

As to criticizing a drug: I am very happy that Dr. Frances Kelsey kept thalidomide from being approved for morning sickness in the US.
Absolute lie. You've just proven who you are. They were changed. Just astounding that you refuse to see the truth.

Diagnostic criteria for polio were changed AFTER the vaccine was released. Anyone can find that. Holy liar pharma shill.

ADD: Suzy has proven herself a researcher, writing up 500 word posts complete with 15 links to here there and everywhere. Since she is such a phenomenal researcher, she should be able to find this information in about 2 minutes. If she chooses not to, well, I know why. It's pretty easy to find. It would be easy for me to post. Just giving her another chance.

Last edited by newtovenice; 12-09-2017 at 07:04 AM..
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Old 12-09-2017, 09:57 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
23,430 posts, read 28,280,822 times
Reputation: 29020
Quote:
Originally Posted by newtovenice View Post
Absolute lie. You've just proven who you are. They were changed. Just astounding that you refuse to see the truth.

Diagnostic criteria for polio were changed AFTER the vaccine was released. Anyone can find that. Holy liar pharma shill.

ADD: Suzy has proven herself a researcher, writing up 500 word posts complete with 15 links to here there and everywhere. Since she is such a phenomenal researcher, she should be able to find this information in about 2 minutes. If she chooses not to, well, I know why. It's pretty easy to find. It would be easy for me to post. Just giving her another chance.
No, dear heart. Polio causes acute flaccid paralysis. Other viruses can also cause acute flaccid paralysis. Only acute flaccid paralysis caused by the polio virus is polio. Polio is a member of the enterovirus family. Other enteroviruses can cause the same symptoms as polio.

https://www.medicinenet.com/non-poli...ease/views.htm

Other viruses, including West Nile virus, can cause similar symptoms. There are also noninfectious causes.

When a patient presents with acute flaccid paralysis, specific testing must be done to identify the cause. If it's not due to poliovirus, then it's not polio.

Eradicating polio does not eradicate all acute flaccid paralysis because not all acute flaccid paralysis is caused by polio.

https://watermark.silverchair.com/22...oGvFJNJTpb96Eg
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Old 12-09-2017, 12:43 PM
 
Location: Saint John, IN
11,043 posts, read 3,994,985 times
Reputation: 13559
I saw on the news the other night that the vaccine for this years flu is only 10% effective!


Flu shot 2017 not as effective against H3N2 strain, but get it anyway - Business Insider
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Old 12-09-2017, 02:27 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
23,430 posts, read 28,280,822 times
Reputation: 29020
Quote:
Originally Posted by CGab View Post
I saw on the news the other night that the vaccine for this years flu is only 10% effective!


Flu shot 2017 not as effective against H3N2 strain, but get it anyway - Business Insider
The vaccine is less effective against the most common strain of flu circulating this year but it can protect against the other strains in it and it may make the illness less severe if you get the common strain anyway.

If you were offered your choice of a lottery ticket with a 10% chance of winning (flu vaccine) or 0% chance of winning (no vaccine), which would you choose?
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Old 12-09-2017, 02:34 PM
Status: "Disagreeing is not the same thing as trolling." (set 13 days ago)
 
Location: Texas
9,563 posts, read 3,665,665 times
Reputation: 19648
What I've learned about the flu shot is, that even if you get the flu, and you've had the shot, you will have a much milder case of the flu.
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Old 12-09-2017, 03:45 PM
 
Location: Southern California
23,785 posts, read 8,278,461 times
Reputation: 15502
I've learned how to avoid flu shots on my own for probably close to 30 yrs.
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Old 12-09-2017, 06:23 PM
 
Location: Saint John, IN
11,043 posts, read 3,994,985 times
Reputation: 13559
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
The vaccine is less effective against the most common strain of flu circulating this year but it can protect against the other strains in it and it may make the illness less severe if you get the common strain anyway.

If you were offered your choice of a lottery ticket with a 10% chance of winning (flu vaccine) or 0% chance of winning (no vaccine), which would you choose?


No one in our family gets a flu shot. We only get the required vaccinations.
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Old 12-09-2017, 07:25 PM
 
9,595 posts, read 5,806,602 times
Reputation: 9693
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post

If you were offered your choice of a lottery ticket with a 10% chance of winning (flu vaccine) or 0% chance of winning (no vaccine), which would you choose?

Bad comparison. A better one might be, "would you take daily aspirin to prevent a heart attack if the chance of it working was only 10%?

Last edited by MissTerri; 12-09-2017 at 08:46 PM..
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Old 12-09-2017, 09:12 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
23,430 posts, read 28,280,822 times
Reputation: 29020
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri View Post
Bad comparison. A better one might be, "would you take aspirin to prevent a heart attack if the chance of it working was only 10%?
"... would you take aspirin to prevent a heart attack if the chance of it working was only 10%?"

Why would I not take it?

Yes. I would take the 10% benefit. The actual benefit of taking aspirin at the onset of symptoms of a heart attack is about 20%. You see, I am not a victim of the Nirvana fallacy. I do not believe a medical treatment has to be 100% effective to be beneficial.

By the way, daily aspirin for prevention of cardiovascular disease carries a significant risk of gastrointestinal bleeding and hemorrhagic stroke. For certain groups of people the benefits of aspirin outweigh the risk.

Taking daily aspirin is riskier than taking the flu vaccine.
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Old 12-09-2017, 09:29 PM
 
9,595 posts, read 5,806,602 times
Reputation: 9693
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
"... would you take aspirin to prevent a heart attack if the chance of it working was only 10%?"

Why would I not take it?

Yes. I would take the 10% benefit. The actual benefit of taking aspirin at the onset of symptoms of a heart attack is about 20%. You see, I am not a victim of the Nirvana fallacy. I do not believe a medical treatment has to be 100% effective to be beneficial.

By the way, daily aspirin for prevention of cardiovascular disease carries a significant risk of gastrointestinal bleeding and hemorrhagic stroke. For certain groups of people the benefits of aspirin outweigh the risk.

Taking daily aspirin is riskier than taking the flu vaccine.
Are you aware of the risk of taking daily aspirin for a heart attack? Still worth it for a 10% chance it might prevent a heat attack?

I don't think I'm the one falling victim to nirvana fallacy.
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